Esoteric
Well-Known Member
Sharpie in the corner. If I need to know what color it is, I just pop out my phone and look on the instrument schedule. Marking is for filing purposes.
Mike
Mike
The new thread on labeling gel
- Thread startergafftapegreenia
- Start date
White china markers. Except when framing R00 or something where white won't show up, in which case use black china markers.
On the original topic of the thread, I worked under a few different Production Electricians this summer who all use the same method of labeling. Color in the lower center of the cut (so it's visible in the frame, like in SteveB's example. Then above that, position and unit number. It was weird at first, but it makes hang infinitely easier. Also, for companies that save and reuse gel, the china marker can wipe off, leaving just the gel number. Works great.
sdauditorium
Active Member
We use white china markers..more specifically, Apollo's gel markers. As far as marking gel, we used to mark in the middle so that it was visible in the frame. However, I noticed that where we marked tended to burn out and lose color quicker. Now, we've resorted to marking in the top corner of the gel out of frame.
tdrga
Well-Known Member
If I paid for the gel, this is how it gets marked:
Color gets marked with white china marker, centered at the top of the frame opening. Any frost gets marked at the bottom of the frame opening. That way you can look at the instrument and know if there is a light frost in the frame or not-if you see two numbers, it has frost. Also leaves both numbers legible (as long as your electricians put the color/frost in the frame correctly).
Cyc cuts get labeled in the lower left hand corner, still visible while in the frame.
Nothing ever gets labeled in the center of the frame- too much heat concentrated in that spot.
We never do long running shows that would require the unit number on the gel, but I have worked on shows that do mark all of that info.
If someone else brings in their gel, they can mark it however they want.
-Todd
Color gets marked with white china marker, centered at the top of the frame opening. Any frost gets marked at the bottom of the frame opening. That way you can look at the instrument and know if there is a light frost in the frame or not-if you see two numbers, it has frost. Also leaves both numbers legible (as long as your electricians put the color/frost in the frame correctly).
Cyc cuts get labeled in the lower left hand corner, still visible while in the frame.
Nothing ever gets labeled in the center of the frame- too much heat concentrated in that spot.
We never do long running shows that would require the unit number on the gel, but I have worked on shows that do mark all of that info.
If someone else brings in their gel, they can mark it however they want.
-Todd
Jekyll
Member
So here is our scoop on things...
1) Gel is always numbered when cut
2) Gel is numbered in the top center of the opening (no larger than an average thumb size) - so they can be seen from the stage floor
3) Gel is never numbered in the center, regardless of sharpie or china marker, as it destroys saturated colours very quickly
4) Gel is numbered "R#" for Roscolux and "L#" for Lee (we rarely use Lee)
5) Any non-saturated colours are numbered with black sharpie and any saturated colours are labelled with white china marker
6) Gel is always placed into fixtures with the number facing outwards so it can be seen from the stage floor clearly during lamp checks
7) To save money, gel is always reused until I determine that the colour is worn or looks like it will start fading during its next use
8) Because of #6 above, we do not place any other information on the gel (inst #, location, focus purpose etc).
9) For anyone who has not figured this out yet, frost should always be placed against the lens (# facing out) with the colour in front of it. If placed into a fixture the opposite way (frost away from lens), you will burn your saturated (or any) colour into the frost and make it garbage after it's first and only use.
10) I do like the idea of numbering frosts in the bottom center visible so that the 2 numbers can be seen at the same time.
11) Finally, if you find yourself looking at the numbers of the gel from the audience, maybe you should question what productions your artistic director is producing!! hahahahaha
Thanks everyone for your input here. Great ideas from lots of great experience.
Cheers,
Darren
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Darren W. Hales
Head Electrician - Granville Island Stage
Arts Club Theatre Company
Vancouver, BC
1) Gel is always numbered when cut
2) Gel is numbered in the top center of the opening (no larger than an average thumb size) - so they can be seen from the stage floor
3) Gel is never numbered in the center, regardless of sharpie or china marker, as it destroys saturated colours very quickly
4) Gel is numbered "R#" for Roscolux and "L#" for Lee (we rarely use Lee)
5) Any non-saturated colours are numbered with black sharpie and any saturated colours are labelled with white china marker
6) Gel is always placed into fixtures with the number facing outwards so it can be seen from the stage floor clearly during lamp checks
7) To save money, gel is always reused until I determine that the colour is worn or looks like it will start fading during its next use
8) Because of #6 above, we do not place any other information on the gel (inst #, location, focus purpose etc).
9) For anyone who has not figured this out yet, frost should always be placed against the lens (# facing out) with the colour in front of it. If placed into a fixture the opposite way (frost away from lens), you will burn your saturated (or any) colour into the frost and make it garbage after it's first and only use.
10) I do like the idea of numbering frosts in the bottom center visible so that the 2 numbers can be seen at the same time.
11) Finally, if you find yourself looking at the numbers of the gel from the audience, maybe you should question what productions your artistic director is producing!! hahahahaha
Thanks everyone for your input here. Great ideas from lots of great experience.
Cheers,
Darren
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Darren W. Hales
Head Electrician - Granville Island Stage
Arts Club Theatre Company
Vancouver, BC
I have found that regardless of the order of gel and frost, color media inevitably deposits onto diffusion.
Jekyll
Member
You are definitely correct, Gaff, however...I have cut frost (R119 or R132) for a lot of our Source 4's and after 2-3 years it is still not saturated with the colours previously used with it. In fact, frost will pretty much last a super long time if it lives in it's own frame against the lens with the colour in a separate frame away from the lens. You are then providing air space between the frost and your colour, allowing both to last much longer. Frost lets all colour tones pass through. The frost is just softening the beam for you instead of using the barrel to do this. Whereas, colour against the lens will start to separate from its sheet and bleed into the frost within minutes if using a more saturated colour like dark blue or indigo. So you have a choice of getting maybe a week or two (or max a full run of typical 5-6 weeks for most professional companies) out of your frost, or a couple years.
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In my experience, with light frosts like R119 & R132 I have never had any issue putting the frost in the same color frame as color in any of the ERS units we use. This includes source fours, strand axial fixtures, 360Qs, etc. I have seen this problem in cyc fixtures where we're use a silk diffusion.
This is not to say that it isn't a potential issue, but I have not had this problem of color bleeding onto frost.
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coasterboard
Member
Made me laugh. All too familiar...
coasterboard
Member
Makes sense. Do more work than you have to just so you can stick to your system. I think I've worked for you before....
On a serious note, I love having the gel in the middle. When its flown, I can read it. When its stacked in frames on the table waiting to be dropped in, I can quickly ID which stack is which without having to slide a corner out and read the marking. However, I do a lot of corporate shows now, and for those, I write the number off in the corner to keep the look as clean as possible. CEOs in the front row dont want to read r3206 on the lights. The clients pay for newly cut gel every show too, so after each show, I give the "used" gel to community theatres. That is, if they want them- corporate shows use a lot of CTB...
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soundguy99
Member
Hi Guys,
I don`t mean to re-hash an already heated topic of where to mark gels,
My question is more about the grease pencils themselves vs sharpie. I am still fairly new to the theater world and I understand that grease pencils have been traditionally used, and to a point I can understand why, however Grease pencils are removable. My question is that if I have a fresh roll of Lee 161 for instance and I`m cutting gels to fit my lights, I would want to mark them in some way that`s permanent wouldn`t I? So Once that is cut regardless what I do with that gel, I can look at it and see the permanent label, and no that its a Lee 161, without using a swatch book right?
The reason, I am asking the question is our theater is fairly old, with allot of misc. gels, some that you can clearly see that they have been marked with some sort of grease pencil, some you can see that the grease pencil has wore off and some are not even marked.
As I try and replace gels and re-organize things, going forward, regardless where I decide to mark them on the gels themselves I want to make, I am doing things properly, in that a month a year or 2 years down the road as that gel wears, I can still look at that gel, see the same label as when I first cut it from the sheet and know what it is without comparing it to a swatch book.
The grease pencils being non permanent although it has been traditionally used, makes me question using it vs a more permanent option.
Maybe Its a strange question, but I wanted to get your thoughts on it,
Any thoughts are greatly appreciated,
Thanks,
soundguy99
I don`t mean to re-hash an already heated topic of where to mark gels,
My question is more about the grease pencils themselves vs sharpie. I am still fairly new to the theater world and I understand that grease pencils have been traditionally used, and to a point I can understand why, however Grease pencils are removable. My question is that if I have a fresh roll of Lee 161 for instance and I`m cutting gels to fit my lights, I would want to mark them in some way that`s permanent wouldn`t I? So Once that is cut regardless what I do with that gel, I can look at it and see the permanent label, and no that its a Lee 161, without using a swatch book right?
The reason, I am asking the question is our theater is fairly old, with allot of misc. gels, some that you can clearly see that they have been marked with some sort of grease pencil, some you can see that the grease pencil has wore off and some are not even marked.
As I try and replace gels and re-organize things, going forward, regardless where I decide to mark them on the gels themselves I want to make, I am doing things properly, in that a month a year or 2 years down the road as that gel wears, I can still look at that gel, see the same label as when I first cut it from the sheet and know what it is without comparing it to a swatch book.
The grease pencils being non permanent although it has been traditionally used, makes me question using it vs a more permanent option.
Maybe Its a strange question, but I wanted to get your thoughts on it,
Any thoughts are greatly appreciated,
Thanks,
soundguy99
robmerow
Active Member
I don't think that would be possible in the large scale production of gel without having to add another machine to the production process. All the sheets of gel I've seen have a small sticker applied or the brand and number stamped on. Also, how big would the printing have to be? I usually write in inch high letters so I can quickly sort gel out without having to squint at it or bring it closer.
Here's a video of the process, presumably Lee Filters because the plastic is being saturated in tray of colored lacquer.
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soundguy99
Member
Thanks for the reply,
I just didn`t know if there was some sort of heat issue with the ink in the sharpie, or a label you would throw on there. I know it sounds silly, but when you hear allot of lighting guys using the grease pencils, I didn`t know if there was anything specific that would make them use the grease pencil exclusively vs a sharpie or anything else. You know one of those light guy things that are common knowledge to some, that just gets passed down through the years.
Thanks,
soundguy
I just didn`t know if there was some sort of heat issue with the ink in the sharpie, or a label you would throw on there. I know it sounds silly, but when you hear allot of lighting guys using the grease pencils, I didn`t know if there was anything specific that would make them use the grease pencil exclusively vs a sharpie or anything else. You know one of those light guy things that are common knowledge to some, that just gets passed down through the years.
Thanks,
soundguy
lwinters630
Well-Known Member
DELO72
Well-Known Member
One item that confuses the hell out of me. For those of you who said, "in the center, as I don't want to have to climb a ladder or bring it in to check what color it is...." -- You have heard of these things called "Dimmer Hookups and Channel Schedules", right? There's also this thing called a Light Plot. All three list the gel in each fixture. Just sayin'.... John Mckernon must be facepalming over this thread.
Probably because there are countless variations of sizes of gel cuts, so there's no way to guarantee that you would get labeling on every cut. You would need a whole lot of numbers and that might get really annoying.
techieman33
Well-Known Member
I could maybe see Apollo doing it on their perf-gel. I don't see it working well anywhere else. I wouldn't want to end up with a label in the visible part of the cut, others may like it in the middle of the cut. Those that like it in the middle may not like that it's to small to read, or one of a hundred other possible complaints. It also adds expense to making the gel, which will just get passed down to the end user in the end anyway.
