Outboard Gear The Too-Many-Headsets Problem

Jay Ashworth

Well-Known Member
Ok, now that my RM-440 problem is marching resolutely forwards, I took the plunge, and bought the Headset of Mass Destruction: Sennheiser's HMD-280.

While the HD-280 is $100, the -280 (with boom mic) was always $300... but I found one for $80, used, presumably in the wake of the introduction of the HMD-300, which now holds the $300 price point.

But my goal is to plug its A3M mic plug, and 3.5 stereo headset plug into a box that will let me feed the mic out to a mixer, take the headset audio in from a mixer (or two; nice to monitor your encode/record in addition to the board out)...

and *also* connect those to at least one, and preferably two A4F or A5M PL cords, running to beltpacks (or rackmount master stations, of course).

Now, surely I cannot be the first A1 *ever* to need to monitor audio *and* talk on PL at the same time, right? Someone *has* to have already built the box I need for this?

Anyone? Anyone?

Bueller? :)
 
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I know what you're sayin'... but my use case is "walks up to an existing setup". Edge cabling is the only interface I can count on.

I'm not fond of depending on -- or tying up -- channels and or auxes on the board, and that makes the way I operate it differ depending on where I am, as well. Com is *way* too tactical an item for me to not want that to be reflex, and 'my own box' is the only practical solution for that, IME.

The question, I guess, is what you're appraising as "overhead". :)
 
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I would attack this slightly differently. I would use an AudioCom US-2002 as the base station. It has 2 channels of intercom and 2 balanced program inputs that can be direct routed to the just the attached headset. It also has PA / paging mic function that could be routed back to the console as the talk back. It can operate in unbalanced mode for clearcom compatibility as well so unless you run into something digital you should be covered. This may require some matching transformers and DIs to make it all hook up but I think it should do what you want.
 
I was looking at the Audiocoms, but when we get to "matching transformers and DIs" we are again out of the realm of "walk into someone else's facility, plop down the box, and plug in a couple cords", and I'm really trying to keep it to that if I can.

Plus, one of the 5 regular seats in my view is the RM-440 I mentioned at the top...

And additionally, that's RTS, is it not? All my houses are 3w ClearCom
 
So the HMD-280 arrived a couple days ago, with some broken plastic (where the slides are, supposed to cover the little cable tags), and a fresh set of replacement earpads for me to install, which was a nice touch, though those things are a PITA to get on...

And the mic seems to work ok, and the phones seem to work ok. The boom won't bend in quite as close as I'd like, but that may be on purpose.

So, now off to electronics!

Does anyone know if a Clearcom box is going to puke if it sees an audio signal, rather than a physical mic, on transmit?
 
Ok, now that my RM-440 problem is marching resolutely forwards, I took the plunge, and bought the Headset of Mass Destruction: Sennheiser's HMD-280.

While the HD-280 is $100, the -280 (with boom mic) was always $300... but I found one for $80, used, presumably in the wake of the introduction of the HMD-300, which now holds the $300 price point.

But my goal is to plug its A3M mic plug, and 3.5 stereo headset plug into a box that will let me feed the mic out to a mixer, take the headset audio in from a mixer (or two; nice to monitor your encode/record in addition to the board out)...

and *also* connect those to at least one, and preferably two A4F or A5M PL cords, running to beltpacks (or rackmount master stations, of course).

Now, surely I cannot be the first A1 *ever* to need to monitor audio *and* talk on PL at the same time, right? Someone *has* to have already built the box I need for this?

Anyone? Anyone?

Bueller? :)
Hi Jay -

So what you're talking about is how to get your comms and your cue buss from your desk into the same headset. I've spent about 25 years trying to solve what you're solving in a "one box fits all" solution and I've yet to get there. I've built at least a dozen different solutions in my head but they're either too limited, or too huge and complex. There's just too many variables. Which is why I've got about half a dozen different solutions I employ now to solve this issue depending on the circumstances of the gig I'm walking into.

My favorite solution for analog intercom right now is the Studio Technologies Model 233 announcer station. Takes two channels of intercom and two channels of program and uses a headset like what you describe. Very flexible with a ton of dip switch settings to adapt to the situation. But very large and very spendy.

I've also got a beloved very rare RS-202S Clearcom belt pack from a million years ago [hint it's metal and blue] that takes two channels of Clearcom and two channels of program and mixes them with four volume knobs and they all go to one Clearcom headset. And an RTS belt pack of the same vintage that does the same for RTS. Among other weird things I've collected to do this. You get the idea....

I haven't even opened CB in about 73 years so I don't know any of the previous things you've posted about your situation. So... What are the scenarios you're working in now and exactly what do you want to achieve? I'd be happy to point you in some good directions or at least help you avoid some bad ones. :)

Brian Maddox
"comms are life"
 
I was looking at the Audiocoms, but when we get to "matching transformers and DIs" we are again out of the realm of "walk into someone else's facility, plop down the box, and plug in a couple cords", and I'm really trying to keep it to that if I can.

Plus, one of the 5 regular seats in my view is the RM-440 I mentioned at the top...

And additionally, that's RTS, is it not? All my houses are 3w ClearCom
Audiocom is a weird one. It operates either in "balanced mode" which is a unique Audiocom format [neither RTS nor Clearcom] or it operates in "Unbalanced Mode" which is completely Clearcom compatible.

It's good quality gear that can usually be found for next to nothing and it often can fill weird applications like what you're describing. I don't think it's the answer to YOUR actual application though, at least from what I can tell.

Secondly, I'm not 100 percent sure what you mean by "3w ClearCom" although I presume you mean "one channel on a 3 conductor XLR" Clearcom. Analog Clearcom is generally referred to in two different ways. There's "2-wire" analog which is the standard one channel on an XLR Clearcom that we know and love. And then there's "TW" analog [which DOESN'T mean 2-wire because Clearcom just likes to mess with our heads] that refers to the Clearcom Analog TWO channels on a single XLR cable system that is very similar [and ALMOST fully compatible] with RTS.

Aren't you glad you asked? :)

Brian Maddox
"Comms are Life"
 
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No, but I'm sure glad you answered. :)

Our ClearCom is single 3-pin XLR per channel; 2 channels wired separately thoughout the facility. No RTS or compatible. In our booth, there's a pair of jacks with one switch that flips them from A to B (both running to our FSII base). But for my use case, I *think* it might just be a case of carrying cables with A4F's for Clearcom boxes, and ones with A5M's for RTS boxes, and plugging those into my crazybox.

I know you can get the PH-88, for example, which I own and carry, with either connector, so I'm tentatively assuming the headset interface is the same.
 
My favorite solution for analog intercom right now is the Studio Technologies Model 233 announcer station. Takes two channels of intercom and two channels of program and uses a headset like what you describe. Very flexible with a ton of dip switch settings to adapt to the situation. But very large and very spendy.

I've also got a beloved very rare RS-202S Clearcom belt pack from a million years ago [hint it's metal and blue] that takes two channels of Clearcom and two channels of program and mixes them with four volume knobs and they all go to one Clearcom headset. And an RTS belt pack of the same vintage that does the same for RTS. Among other weird things I've collected to do this. You get the idea....

I haven't even opened CB in about 73 years so I don't know any of the previous things you've posted about your situation. So... What are the scenarios you're working in now and exactly what do you want to achieve? I'd be happy to point you in some good directions or at least help you avoid some bad ones. :)
Seems like all of ST's gear is spendy, from my non-rarefied air point of view.

The RS-202S sounds pretty close, but the Program inputs probably are not stereo, nor A1-mixer quality.

And everything is right here in the thread, at least on this topic... As I say, I can't be the only A1 who needs to talk/listen on the PL; I'm a bit shocked no one has dug this hole before.
 
Seems like all of ST's gear is spendy, from my non-rarefied air point of view.

The RS-202S sounds pretty close, but the Program inputs probably are not stereo, nor A1-mixer quality.

And everything is right here in the thread, at least on this topic... As I say, I can't be the only A1 who needs to talk/listen on the PL; I'm a bit shocked no one has dug this hole before.
Oh I've dug this hole. many times. and had it collapse on me and then I dug another hole and then didn't find any treasure and then... you get the idea.

My best solution, that I never actually built, was a passive summing mixer with 4-6 inputs and 2 outputs. Each input has 3 position select toggle to go from left, right or both outputs. This would be fed from outputs from multiple comms belt packs set to different channels and/or headphone outputs from a mixing console or other device. Since all the device outputs are already "headphone level" the relative levels between each input would be set by the volume controls on the various devices to eliminate having to put variable resistors and other complication in my "magic box" or add active circuitry. inputs on the box would likely be on TRS jacks and I would just have various outboard adapters to fit a wide variety of situations. That takes care of the monitoring side and feeds a TRS jack for my headphones.

Microphone side can also be passive and simply go to a passive splitter to feed outputs that feed the belt pack interfaces as well as an XLR to feed a mixing console. Likely should use a transformer or two to keep various devices isolated from one another for grounding reasons.

This was the simplest device I could come up with and it still ends up having a dozen connectors on it as well as a bunch of switches and likely a transformer or 2 or 3. and a whole bunch of wire and soldering to put it all together. AND I need to build a bunch of different adapters to match up with various belt pack pinouts/connectors depending on how many channels of comm I'm interfacing with, etc.

Now add just about any other capability and this very simple device wouldn't work and you'd need something different. Like if you need a line level input into this you're screwed because it's a passive device and the levels between your "headphone level" things will not match your "line level" things. Or if you need a line level output from this device to feed a talkback circuit somewhere that doesn't have a mic pre then you need to add a mic pre to the box and thus power and.... yeah...

Bottom line reason that there is no off the shelf component available to do this is that there are just too many variables. Does it need to be stereo or mono? Does it need to be active? What does it need to interface with? Do all those things need grounding isolation? blah blah blah...

And this is why I have several either off the shelf or adapted solutions that I use to solve this issue and I use whatever thing matches the situation I'm in since a "one size fits all" box is such a challenge. And even that is in a constant state of flux. For instance, my Model 233 announcer station that I used for many many shows is basically not going out much anymore because I'm just not seeing analog comms much anymore.

Now if you can whittle your variables down for your specific box you may be able to build something pretty straightforward that'll do what you need it to do. It's just all about balancing flexibility with complexity. But you're not likely to find an off the shelf thing that does what you want. The closest you're going to get is on the avlifesavers site since he has a bunch of weird comms things that you may be able to combine to fit your specific situation.

Hope some of all this junk I just wrote is semi useful. :)

brian
"Comms are Life"
 
No, but I'm sure glad you answered. :)

Our ClearCom is single 3-pin XLR per channel; 2 channels wired separately thoughout the facility. No RTS or compatible. In our booth, there's a pair of jacks with one switch that flips them from A to B (both running to our FSII base). But for my use case, I *think* it might just be a case of carrying cables with A4F's for Clearcom boxes, and ones with A5M's for RTS boxes, and plugging those into my crazybox.

I know you can get the PH-88, for example, which I own and carry, with either connector, so I'm tentatively assuming the headset interface is the same.
The headphone interface for RTS and Clearcom is the same just with gender reversed connectors. And there are Clearcom devices with A5Fs and RTS with A4Ms but yes, it's all one for one with regard to pinouts so you can have gender turnarounds to get between RTS/Clearcom without issue.
 
No, but I'm sure glad you answered. :)

Our ClearCom is single 3-pin XLR per channel; 2 channels wired separately thoughout the facility. No RTS or compatible. In our booth, there's a pair of jacks with one switch that flips them from A to B (both running to our FSII base). But for my use case, I *think* it might just be a case of carrying cables with A4F's for Clearcom boxes, and ones with A5M's for RTS boxes, and plugging those into my crazybox.

I know you can get the PH-88, for example, which I own and carry, with either connector, so I'm tentatively assuming the headset interface is the same.
Two thoughts:
1; Install an A4M on your headset then make and carry a one piece barrel adapter with an A4F in one end and an A5M in the other.
2; Remove the A4 connector from your headset then drill a cable entrance hole in the side of a barrel and add a 4 on one end and a 5 on the other.

I used to own a Ward Beck extended range VU meter with Banana Post input terminals; I added a barrel connector with a cable entrance hole on one side, an XLR3F on one end and an XLR3M on the other. This let me unplug XLR3 cables and insert my meter at any point along a run.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
The headphone interface for RTS and Clearcom is the same just with gender reversed connectors. And there are Clearcom devices with A5Fs and RTS with A4Ms but yes, it's all one for one with regard to pinouts so you can have gender turnarounds to get between RTS/Clearcom without issue.
I thought, in fact, that the RTS used A5M's because they could stereo the dual-muff headsets.
 
Two thoughts:
1; Install an A4M on your headset then make and carry a one piece barrel adapter with an A4F in one end and an A5M in the other.
2; Remove the A4 connector from your headset then drill a cable entrance hole in the side of a barrel and add a 4 on one end and a 5 on the other.

I used to own a Ward Beck extended range VU meter with Banana Post input terminals; I added a barrel connector with a cable entrance hole on one side, an XLR3F on one end and an XLR3M on the other. This let me unplug XLR3 cables and insert my meter at any point along a run.
You're fixing the wrong part of the problem, Ron. :)
 
I've also got a beloved very rare RS-202S Clearcom belt pack from a million years ago [hint it's metal and blue] that takes two channels of Clearcom and two channels of program and mixes them with four volume knobs and they all go to one Clearcom headset. And an RTS belt pack of the same vintage that does the same for RTS. Among other weird things I've collected to do this. You get the idea....
It's apparently so old and rare the Google can't even find a picture of it.

I can see 602's and 703's, but not a 202.
 
It's apparently so old and rare the Google can't even find a picture of it.

I can see 602's and 703's, but not a 202.
It's an RS-202S [and yes the S makes a difference] and When I said it was very rare I absolutely wasn't kidding. I came upon my first one as NOS in the store room of the sound company I worked at in the 90s [and it was already very much outdated then]. I used it for several hundred shows before my tool bag got stolen and I lost it. I spent quite literally years searching for another one and finally found a pair on eBay that I paid dearly for. I've still got one of those and the other is in a friend's sound shop.

I did manage to find a manual for it once. it was a very bad copy of what looked to be a hand typed manual. I think they stopped making the 200 series in the late 70s so it's an oldie to put it mildly.

It is stereo capable [One each of the comms and program inputs are routed to Left and Right via an optional 5 pin XLR headset connector] but you are correct in that it wouldn't really be "studio grade" monitoring quality. Still one of my prized possession though. I've done a LOT of shows with that old thing, but as I said I rarely come across analog comms any longer so it's largely retired and lives in "the old comms home" on a shelf in my studio.
 
Well it took me a while..
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