Theatre Stage & Rigging Renovation

If is a school or community center, all spaces with a few exceptions must be accessible - pits, stages, control rooms, etc. Generally equipment platforms like lighting catwalks and loading bridges do not have to be accessible. If its a professional theatre or on where only employees have to access those spaces, they must be adaptable. You don't have to have the ramp or lift but you need a plan to have one so that if someone needing it is hired for that job, they can do it.

Besides the stage being accessible generally, like for a performer or tech, if an audience member can walk directly to the stage within the auditorium - a stair from first row to stage as is common - then there must be an accessible route to the stage without leaving the auditorium. Certain existing conditions of an existing building may be exempted (grandfathered).

If you look at a lot of my projects, you'll see not steps. The stage is at ground floor level along with a cross aisle (which might be behind last row) and the seats forward slope or step down, and the seats behind the cross aisle if any step up.

I have on several occasions incorporated a lift where the side or caliper stages were not to be, and arranged the lift to connect stage to first row to pit. Its fussy but doable. And I have one facility where an elevator connects pit level, first row level, lobby level, adn control room level. Drew the elevator first and then drew the theatre around it.

Starting a ramp at the first row to get to a stage in a room with otherwise stepped or sloped seating in my experience never works and is a dead end. A single flat floor room with a raised stage is different.

Theatre consultant Teddy Dean Boys once commented that the requirements for accessibility has more impact on theatre design and planning than anything else for several hundred years, most notably comparing it to the impact of electricity, which I think is less.

We were told that because of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA)

I've talked to a lot of ADA consultants and experts. They all have conviction in their views on the law. They must never talk to each other because they very often don't agree.
 
So you want free advice from people that make their living selling advice? Do you expect a Doctor to work for free? A lawyer? An architect? Your auto mechanic? (not that any of these examples know anything about theatre) Professionals have expenses just like any other business. Rent / House Payments, insurance, utilities, food, healthcare, education, continuing education (so they know about all of the latest technologies), certifications and licensing, and a zillion other costs of doing business and living a life. We are passionate about our work, but none of us can afford to do it for free.
 
@teqniqal I think there’s a big difference between having the work done for you and asking for an opinion. If someone calls me for an opinion, I’ll usually give mine. If they’re asking for a lot, I’ll ask to set up a meeting. I’m not a professional consultant by any means, but part of my salary used to come from rentals, and part of that was providing opinions before the rental to see if it was a job I wanted and if it was something they could afford. When I consult someone now, I expect them to answer some preliminary things before I decide to do business with them. If I’m calling someone to see if they can do the job I’m requesting, and they want paid before they answer a question, I’ll find another consultant.

We’re going to be in the market for a consultant soon. I know that it will be pricey, I’ve prepared the board. There’s no one close on the lists that I’ve seen, so I’d also assume we’ll be paying for transportation and a hotel room. Before I hire someone, I’m going to want to explain the size and scope of the project and see if they understand our vision. I don’t want to waste their time and I don’t want our time wasted as well.

In the meantime, I think a lot of us are here because we like to bounce ideas off of each other and share and help each other and complain. If you love what you do, you don’t mind occasionally helping someone out or throwing in your two cents. How many of us have gone to lend a hand for nothing or put in a few hours of work for a case of beer? I’m not trying to take any food out of anyone’s mouth and I don't think it was the OP’s intention at all.
 
You do stage access with a lift, not a ramp. Every theatre I've ever been in that needed it.

Mike: only $600/ft? Is that just structure, or all-in?

Does anybody have an as-built budget for one of these things laying around that people can look at in circumstances like this? (I am pointedly not tagging *anyone* here, and if you know what's good for you, Ron, you won't either. :))
 
C'mon, Erich; you *provide* that free advice around here. A lot. And it's top-tier advice; I've read it.

Worst case, you just don't answer. Cause you're sorta calling all the people who did idiots. :)

Everyone -- including you -- is entitled to decide how much they wanna give away for free, but let's remember the "Please Don't Bite The Newbies" rule?
 
You do stage access with a lift, not a ramp. Every theatre I've ever been in that needed it.

Mike: only $600/ft? Is that just structure, or all-in?

Does anybody have an as-built budget for one of these things laying around that people can look at in circumstances like this? (I am pointedly not tagging *anyone* here, and if you know what's good for you, Ron, you won't either. :))

I would not mind sharing what I have butot sure how you define "one of these things".

My last updated worksheet of comparative costs - February 2019 - has a low per square foot of $227 - 1000 seat 1 level butler building basically dead hung stage and a high of $642 for a big city arts high school with a 100' tall stage and two balconies. A lot of high schools in the $400s with typically with a 50' stage and rigging, motorized shells and electrics, and a balcony. That is usually a 700-800 seater around 30,000 sq ft. And as a check of this, I tried 30,000 sf at $450 and its right on a couple of projects of Theatre or PAC additions to high schools around $13.5M.
 
Mike: only $600/ft? Is that just structure, or all-in?

Does anybody have an as-built budget for one of these things laying around that people can look at in circumstances like this? (I am pointedly not tagging *anyone* here, and if you know what's good for you, Ron, you won't either. :))

All in. You can certainly go higher than that of course. The Dr Phillips Center in Orlando is 330,000 SF @ approximately $1720/SF. Of course, that's a $570M world class performing arts center with multiple venues. They incurred probably an extra $100M of costs by phasing the construction of the final venue rather than building it in the first pass -- something they were forced to do because economic conditions back in 2011/2012. They have a rather elaborate concert shell tower system and have features like the flippable seating system by Gala Spiralift, so you can imagine there's a lot of just in those capital items and all of the coordination associated with that. Once you get up above $100M, there's probably also an exponential cost increase associated just with the acoustic requirements because of the structural implications and that you are generally constructing a building within a building for noise isolation.

The Adrienne Arsht Center in Miami is of a similar caliber. Corrected for inflation, their cost was $685M, approx $1200/SF. The most impressive part about that is that they managed that during the heart of the 2008 recession.

All of this is to say that you can usually identify how expensive a project is going to be -- especially a K12-grade project, well before the building is designed. Those early programming meetings where decisions are made on whether to have seating for 500 or 900 people and whether to have a fly loft and if they want a black box -- those square footages and complexities are pretty easy to tally up and least establish a rough order of magnitude cost. That at least offers a benchmark until a construction manager is engaged who can scrutinize means and methods and pull their cost estimators into the conversation.
 
Yeah, I knew that part, I just didn't think I'd overestimated by that much; my thumb in the wind estimates are generally +- 15% or so...
 
I would not mind sharing what I have but not sure how you define "one of these things".

My last updated worksheet of comparative costs - February 2019 - has a low per square foot of $227 - 1000 seat 1 level butler building basically dead hung stage and a high of $642 for a big city arts high school with a 100' tall stage and two balconies. A lot of high schools in the $400s with typically with a 50' stage and rigging, motorized shells and electrics, and a balcony. That is usually a 700-800 seater around 30,000 sq ft. And as a check of this, I tried 30,000 sf at $450 and its right on a couple of projects of Theatre or PAC additions to high schools around $13.5M.

Well, specifically, an as-built budget for something that's a mainstage theatre or larger; I don't think enough line-items would be populated in a blackbox-only build... It's probably not necessary to go to PAC scale, though *I'd* certainly find it interesting...
 
Well, specifically, an as-built budget for something that's a mainstage theatre or larger; I don't think enough line-items would be populated in a blackbox-only build... It's probably not necessary to go to PAC scale, though *I'd* certainly find it interesting...
Those were as built - what did it cost - numbers - total project cost except land - all in 2020 dollars. I'd call these mostly typical consulted on high school projects.
 
Those were as built - what did it cost - numbers - total project cost except land - all in 2020 dollars. I'd call these mostly typical consulted on high school projects.
I was unclear. :)

The thing *I* would find interesting was the as-built *line-item* budgets; this much for shell, this much for finish, this much for lighting controls, this much for lighting instruments, etc, etc, yada, yada...

I expect that for public buildings, that's public record?
 
I was unclear. :)

The thing *I* would find interesting was the as-built *line-item* budgets; this much for shell, this much for finish, this much for lighting controls, this much for lighting instruments, etc, etc, yada, yada...

I expect that for public buildings, that's public record?
You want a "schedule of values". I rarely see or look at them. It is basically alust if all sub-contracts. I might have some luck with the Mississippi project. I'll ask.
 

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