Tightening the Light
- Thread starterFoxinabox10
- Start date
I don't know about conversion charts but I believe these are the conversions for the lights. I could be wrong, but I think it's pretty accurate.
6x4.5 = 50 degree
6x9 = 35 degree
6x12 = 26 degree
6x16 = 19 degree
6x22 = 10 degree
I don't know if there is an equivalent to a 5 degree, I doubt it though. I haven't seen or heard of any of the Altman 6x?? larger then 6x22.
6x4.5 = 50 degree
6x9 = 35 degree
6x12 = 26 degree
6x16 = 19 degree
6x22 = 10 degree
I don't know if there is an equivalent to a 5 degree, I doubt it though. I haven't seen or heard of any of the Altman 6x?? larger then 6x22.
Foxinabox10
Active Member
I'm not totally sure on why a round light is so important either, but I am told to do that and it does look good if you put them often enough across the front of the stage that someone can walk across and never lose the light. It also gives you unlimited zones that you can create out of those lights and the ability to use everyone of them as a special by themselves.
As for the lenses, a new lense tube is about $120 but new lenses to install in the current tube are only about $58, so that might be a solution.
As for the lenses, a new lense tube is about $120 but new lenses to install in the current tube are only about $58, so that might be a solution.
For front light, rounded light isn't important at all. You can use (and a lot, maybe even majority, of people do) shuttered light to create a wash where there are no dark spots. As long as you use 2 directions of light, on each spot the lighting should be bright enough giving the designer play in the intensity rather than being stuck at full, and helping once again fill in any dark spots. The dark spots aren't created by the “squareness” of the light but rather the poor job of focusing the light combined with not enough overlap of the beams themselves. Normally the beam of the second light should touch the hot-spot of first giving a nice and even wash across the stage.
I honestly don't think even big time professionals use only circle light. Not only is it costly but it is even somewhat inconvenient. Shuttered light allows you to go around objects and fit better to a stage then a bunch of circles. In all honesty, the audience doesn’t notice the “squareness” anyways. Shutters are there for a reason, they aren’t there to make the instrument look pretty. Heck, barn doors were even invented to make the circular and parabolic lights have shutters. The shutters are for convenience and shouldn’t be left out to die and be forgotten.
I honestly don't think even big time professionals use only circle light. Not only is it costly but it is even somewhat inconvenient. Shuttered light allows you to go around objects and fit better to a stage then a bunch of circles. In all honesty, the audience doesn’t notice the “squareness” anyways. Shutters are there for a reason, they aren’t there to make the instrument look pretty. Heck, barn doors were even invented to make the circular and parabolic lights have shutters. The shutters are for convenience and shouldn’t be left out to die and be forgotten.
Foxinabox10
Active Member
Whether it is a square or circle aside, since I want the circle, this post is how to do that. Are there any other suggestions?
Les
Well-Known Member
Suggestions:
A). Buy Zoom Ellipsoidals. Lots.
B). Buy Iris Kits. Lots. also Very Expensive.
C). Buy Aperture Gobo's. However, no mathematical equation will land you with just the perfect-sized circle out of a factory made gobo unless you are already using a Zoom. I don't think the selection of aperture sizes is very extensive either. Having them custom made by Rosco, Apollo, Gam, etc... is absolutely crazy. Also, the trial and error process will eat your budget.
My suggestion: Go to Home Depot. Go to the roofing section and pick up some 16 or 20 guage roof flashing or similar tin material. You can also get tin by the rolls, but make sure it's not aluminum. It won't last as long. Stainless is great, as is galvanized (I would imagine). Then measure the standard gobo size used by your instrument. Cut those squares (its easier then trying to cut them into circles like some real gobos). Now is where you need to get out the drill and some assorted sized bits. (you may even need a holesaw bit. Make sure it's for metal though.) Then just experiment with different sized holes to see what you need for the right sized template. Once you find the right one, use it on all your home-made gobos. Note that the heavier (smaller number) gauged metal you get, the longer the gobo will last. I'm sure it will burn through if it's a long term solution regardless of what you use though. That should be a quick and easy solution to your lighting quandary. Hope it helps!
A). Buy Zoom Ellipsoidals. Lots.
B). Buy Iris Kits. Lots. also Very Expensive.
C). Buy Aperture Gobo's. However, no mathematical equation will land you with just the perfect-sized circle out of a factory made gobo unless you are already using a Zoom. I don't think the selection of aperture sizes is very extensive either. Having them custom made by Rosco, Apollo, Gam, etc... is absolutely crazy. Also, the trial and error process will eat your budget.
My suggestion: Go to Home Depot. Go to the roofing section and pick up some 16 or 20 guage roof flashing or similar tin material. You can also get tin by the rolls, but make sure it's not aluminum. It won't last as long. Stainless is great, as is galvanized (I would imagine). Then measure the standard gobo size used by your instrument. Cut those squares (its easier then trying to cut them into circles like some real gobos). Now is where you need to get out the drill and some assorted sized bits. (you may even need a holesaw bit. Make sure it's for metal though.) Then just experiment with different sized holes to see what you need for the right sized template. Once you find the right one, use it on all your home-made gobos. Note that the heavier (smaller number) gauged metal you get, the longer the gobo will last. I'm sure it will burn through if it's a long term solution regardless of what you use though. That should be a quick and easy solution to your lighting quandary. Hope it helps!
propmonkey
Well-Known Member
are these more accurate?
4.5 x 6.5=45
6 x 9=37
6 x 12=27
6 x 16=17
6 x 22=9.5
8 x 8=20
8 x 10=16
8 x 16=6
4.5 x 6.5=45
6 x 9=37
6 x 12=27
6 x 16=17
6 x 22=9.5
8 x 8=20
8 x 10=16
8 x 16=6
propmonkey
Well-Known Member
i saw that on a nother site that i just happened to find. are those the actully angles? or did you post the equivilent to s4's?
I posted the S4s beam angles which are 5, 10, 26, 36, and 50 degree. Never heard of the beam angles that that site had. And yes, I posted the Altman equivlent to the ETC S4's.
Perhaps that site was giving you an actual mathetmaticaly solved beam angle. By that I mean, they figured out what beam angle was exactly equal to the barrel length. Where as I was giving you an equivilant, in other words, the light that had the closest beam spread. However, I'm not sure if that's what they did, but I don't see how else they would have gotten such odd degrees.
Perhaps that site was giving you an actual mathetmaticaly solved beam angle. By that I mean, they figured out what beam angle was exactly equal to the barrel length. Where as I was giving you an equivilant, in other words, the light that had the closest beam spread. However, I'm not sure if that's what they did, but I don't see how else they would have gotten such odd degrees.
propmonkey
Well-Known Member
http://freespace.virgin.net/tom.baldwin/ thats where i got them from.
Hi
I have been following this interesting post. There have been may excellent replies but I am curious about one thing. When your director specified that he wished to have "circles" instead of squared off profiles, what context was he specifing?? Are the lanterns part of a wash or destined to be specials in their own right? If the former is the case, I might honestly conclude he picked up something in some book or such.
Would you mind stating the function for the lamps? I do accept this is not what your original post asked but you can knee jerk in reaction to poorly informed people
All the proper responses given here are articulate with regard to shaping the beam of a profile spot but I don't understand why the director is seeking "circle" light. All badness aside, does he understand what he is seeking?
cheers
eamon
forgive me if this post is a bit glib.
I have been following this interesting post. There have been may excellent replies but I am curious about one thing. When your director specified that he wished to have "circles" instead of squared off profiles, what context was he specifing?? Are the lanterns part of a wash or destined to be specials in their own right? If the former is the case, I might honestly conclude he picked up something in some book or such.
Would you mind stating the function for the lamps? I do accept this is not what your original post asked but you can knee jerk in reaction to poorly informed people
All the proper responses given here are articulate with regard to shaping the beam of a profile spot but I don't understand why the director is seeking "circle" light. All badness aside, does he understand what he is seeking?
cheers
eamon
forgive me if this post is a bit glib.
Ok, I think I was right about it being an exact number. That particular site is giving you an exact degree. They used a mathematical equation (or at least someone did somewhere along the way) to get the degree number. Each number is quite close to its S4 "brother" but not exactly the same. So yes, that information is true (or is most likely true, I didn’t actually check their background) but when referring to conversion on S4's what I said is correct, or at least seemed the answer you were seeking. If you were looking for an equivalent then my post is what you were looking for. Where-as if you were looking for exact numbers then what they said is accurate. Though I don’t know why you would need to know the exact number, however it is a nice little tidbit of information. It all depends on the information you're looking for.
By the way, that seems like a nice site. I think I'll add it to my bookmarks.
PS.. Hehe, glib, what a great word!
By the way, that seems like a nice site. I think I'll add it to my bookmarks.
PS.. Hehe, glib, what a great word!
MSwan
Member
As for making the beam smaller on a 36° Source 4 the cheapest way is to make home made gobos to cheatthis does have the side effect of killing intensity. Get some of those disposable pans ffrom the grocery store to cut your experimental sizes (they won't last for a real long time but are much easier to cut, Xacto knife will do it, and cheaper for experimenting). This will just cut out the extra light and if you for some crazy reason want sharp circles the holes must be cut perfect or it will show very clearly.
lights11964
Member
well the purpose of having circular areas is so that you can over lap the areas. thus causing no dark spots
lights11964 said:
Circles has nothing to do with that. Squares will give you the exact same outcome. Except the edges are straight rather then circular. Like I said previously, if you're having problems with dark spots and break ups in the lights you're not focusing the beam right. You have to overlap the lights by a few feet or so. Wether the edges are square or circular make no difference. Soften the edges on the squared light (you'd probably do it on circular light too) and you're good to go. You also can use these as specials and what not. The only difference between the two is well, one looks round and... one doesn't. When all the lights are on you wouldn't even be able to tell if the designer used circles or squares. Forcing yourself to only do circles is a waist of time and most likely money. (Putting aside "time=money") Though, whatever "floats ones boat." If circles are what someone wants, then go for it. Just keep in mind that they aren't "better" then squares in anyway, just circular.
But we digress....
Anywho, like stated, he doesn't care about which is better, he just wants to know how to do cirlces putting aside any discussion about the two.
propmonkey
Well-Known Member
sorry about the confusion. i was just wondering what the actully degree on the 6x??'s were. thanks for giving me the comparsion thats also helpful
Foxinabox10
Active Member
The circles allow you to duplicate your general zone lights as specials and give a multitude of specials anywhere on the front of the stage. It allows the light to stay tight no matter where the action is and to keep the stage focuses on whatever it should be focused on. The director realizes how effective this is, considering it actually takes less lights to do it this way if possible than to hang the zones and specials as seperates. The resulting look is amazing and allows the full splendor of the set to be shown and not be washed out by spill.
Foxinabox10
Active Member
By spills I mean on the sides by a zone that is too wide. If you have many small zones across the stage, you create larger zones for each scene very easily or use one small for the specials. The round it most natural and is tallest in the middle, just as people are, and shorter in the middle. Think about it: they could have made lights naturally square, but they didn't for a reason.
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