Tools

[ship]

Bosch is the only medium size 1/2hp router I would use or own. But I'm sure DeWalt makes a good model also. It is a large question of personal experience. I for instance don't like plunge routers. I can probably count on one hand how many times I needed the plunge option, but I was always hampered by the height/lock adjustment on them and the small bases. That's the router most wood magazines recommend however. What I would say is a good Bosch medium router, and a large Porter Cable variable speed router, plus a laminate trimmer would be about all you need. With the variable speed at one point I was putting a 1.1/2" radius curve into 2" Blue Dow Board for some scenery. Very useful.

On drill bits, I'm a fan of black oxide for the bits I use most and TIN coated carbide for my good ones. Chrome just doesn't do it for me and titanium is a waste on all but a Unibit. Avoid Bullet Tipped drill bits. Hard to walk up your sizes. What ever I drill if metal, using cutting fluid is the key to keeping them sharp. That and using the proper drilling speed. Saved an empty can of Bucher's wax, cut a slot in it's top and added a 1" paint brush to it for applying oil. Never loan out the drill bits you plan to use unless you are directing how others use them. Had a really expensive 5/8" Tin coated solid carbide bit at one point. All it took was loaning it out once and that was $30.00 down the hole. Re-sharpening drill bits doesn't work well for steel cutting bits and that's my primary use for them. A good set that's locked up for the drill press, and one for the kids to play with is the best option.

 

[Jo-JotheSoundDog]

Bosch,however also offers a 2 HP plunge and fixed base router pack that is variable speed. It is very nice. I have just the basic 1/2 hp fixed base and I love it. I have used it many a times building flats with cutouts.

 

[doc1]

In reading all the good ideas on tool that you should have. A good place i have found for puches and toolbelts is Seat Wear WWW.Seatwear.com They sell many pouches that are for the demanding work of a tech. They allso sell some really good sets of gloves. I own many Seatwear products verry happy with there quality.

Another Tool that i highly recomend for the lighting or riging person i a safty cable for you tools. It can be as simple as a 1/16 black coverd aircraft cable with a lope at each end quicklings on each end. So when you are working on the grid or ladders your c wrench dosent hit the floor.

 

[doc1]

In reading all the good ideas on tool that you should have. A good place i have found for buying these things toolbelts and gloves is Seat Wear WWW.Seatwear.com They sell many pouches that are for the demanding work of a tech. They allso sell some really good sets of gloves. I own Seatwear products and verry happy with there quality.

Another Tool that i highly recomend for the lighting or riging person is a safty cable for your tools. It can be as simple as a 1/16 black covered aircraft cable with a lope at each end quicklinqs on each end. So when you are working on the grid or ladder your c wrench doesn't hit the deck.

 

[wolf825]

Another Tool that i highly recomend for the lighting or riging person is a safty cable for your tools. It can be as simple as a 1/16 black covered aircraft cable with a lope at each end quicklinqs on each end. So when you are working on the grid or ladder your c wrench doesn't hit the deck.

The deck--or worse--someones skull....

wolf

 

[raar]

What I find very usefull is a headlamp. The ones with led's are great. Next to it a larger torch a rechargeble mag or streamlight for looking up in rig for example.

Arjen

 

[drumbum]

I prefer the Dewalt screw guns. They seem to hold up very well and all the dewalt stuff takes almost all the same batteries 12 or 18 volt. The keyless chucks are a wonderful feature.

Im a fan too.

 

[Reggie]

Re: Tools - specifically: twist drill bits

Ship,
I have to disagree with you on the value of re-sharpening twist drill bits. As long as they are high speed steel and not so tiny that you can not orient them easily, it can be done by hand on a bench grinder. It is a skill that can be learned from most any machinist. Serveral jigs are available to make this job easier, as well as machines specifically dedicated to this purpose.

 

[DMXtools]

On sharpening drillbits, I have to side with Ship. The good TiN coated carbide bits are very difficult to sharpen (if it can be done at all - I've had no success and had to dress my wheel when I was done trying). The cheap bits that are easy to sharpen cost less than the time it would take me to sharpen them.

John

 

[ship]

“Ship,
I have to disagree with you on the value of re-sharpening twist drill bits. As long as they are high speed steel and not so tiny that you can not orient them easily, it can be done by hand on a bench grinder. It is a skill that can be learned from most any machinist. Serveral jigs are available to make this job easier, as well as machines specifically dedicated to this purpose.” - Reggie

Actually, I’m of the opinion that for wood a resharpened small bit would work just fine as would chrome ones that work better with wood. Given that it very much depends upon the grinder wheel. Check with your machinests that resharpen the bits to see what type of wheel works best, not the normal one - I expect either a fine white or pink that’s not for normal use. If not wet wheel. Not something Home Depot sells nor Dad would have avaialble. I have a really cool fiber wheel, it would probably do the task but why bother?

To each his own. Sharpening for other than metals applications can be cost effective if it’s a question of labor in restocking them or shipping. If it works for you, great - I long for the debate not to mention the challenge to try sharpening afresh. I hate throwing out drill bits just as much as the next person. Let’s spar. That is best how you, I and the rest learn.

Such sharpening centers are on the market and will work in general for bits used in wood. Ever watch an infomercial on them? Yea they say they work on everything including concrete but use of said drill bits 8 hours a day a week straight would be far different in success.

In what I learned over the years and at a Union scene shop’s metals area in the formative years is that it’s both more work than it’s worth to try and save a metal cutting drill bit once dull, and unless you can re-create the surface treatment to the tip as per the original coating, it’s not going to stay sharp long. Black Oxide coated, TiCN and TiALN coated drill bits are my normal drill bits used. You will note that it is a coating on the high speed steel drill bit under it. Kind of like adding oil or wax to your blade to lubricate or cool it. Once it’s gone by sharpening there is no way to re-apply it. Plus if your speeds and cooling are not just right, the temper will be off and such a drill bit that’s re-sharpened can shatter like a Menards special when it hits a “small bullet - big sky” - Murphy’s Law drywall screw in the lumber. Machinists as you say might resharpen bits as they want, I have a copy of Macheriey’s Handbook #26 myself that I’m sure tells me how to do so. The question still is what’s more cost effective, resharpening more normal drill bits that can be sharpened or perhaps some tin coated drill bits that will stay sharp longer in the more common sizes than just replacing them? Ever notice the presence of multiple drill bit indexes in machinists shops? How many bits do they stock per size? Bit gets abused, you replace it with another of a similar size. My opinion at least given I stock multiple sizes of drill bits for metals use also like them. My bosses don’t grumble about a few bits per month ranging from under a buck to upwards of $30.00 each. Part of doing business. They respect that I know when it’s more cost effective to replace the things - even Titanium step bits, over me trying to sharpen them as a cost of doing business and refined metal working.

Black Oxide for most drill bits and Tin coated for the others that will get more use such as 1/8". After that, hope you don’t have to work with Stainless Steel as it’s going to destroy even the most expensive of bits no matter what oil or other methods you use. On metals, provide the right type and quantity of oil to the surface and you don’t need to sharpen the bit when used at the right speed. I have some drill bits that are older than some forum members no doubt, and others that I constantly replace. Depends upon the size and use such as removing rivets, plus how they are taken care of by the user. Oiled once per hole, verses never - oil what’s that much less grade and type. For wood, sharpen away, for metal, try it a few times verses just buying new when your time is at a premium. Spend a half hour on fixing a drill bit that’s not going to last as long as a new one and you lost the company money. My opinion so far stands, convince me.

 

[Reggie]

Re: Drill bits - round 2?

Ship,
I could use the workout, but all hell is braking loose at work, so I'll make this initial reply brief. Sharpening a drill bit takes very little time, using a bench grider, even when not using a jig. The most efficient method would be to do an entire box, maybe a hundred rapid fire fashion, one right after the other. As for suitable candidates, yes a titanium coated high-speed bit would only be a high speed bit after re-sharpening, but if it has not been overheated, why not salvage it. You are talking about less then a minute, once you get you hands and body properly oriented. High-speed steel bits would be sharpened on an aluminum oxide wheel, typically found on "Dad's" bench grinder, carbide bits require a softer abrasive wheel (can't remember the type). I probable would not bother to try and resharpen a masonry bit, in a hammer drill or an electro pneumatic, the carbide insert is usually pretty well destroyed by the time the bit is retired from use. In a machine shop, you would pass your dull tooling back into the "tool crib" for inspection and re-sharpening when done or when a replacement is required.
Yes, it is a time saver and a an absolute necessity to have spares in the commonly used sizes.

Round #3 later, perhaps?

 

[Reggie]

Re: Drill bits - round 2?

Ship,
I could use the workout, but all hell is braking loose at work, so I'll make this initial reply brief. Sharpening a drill bit takes very little time, using a bench grider, even when not using a jig. The most efficient method would be to do an entire box, maybe a hundred rapid fire fashion, one right after the other. As for suitable candidates, yes a titanium coated high-speed bit would only be a high speed bit after re-sharpening, but if it has not been overheated, why not salvage it. You are talking about less then a minute, once you get you hands and body properly oriented. High-speed steel bits would be sharpened on an aluminum oxide wheel, typically found on "Dad's" bench grinder, carbide bits require a softer abrasive wheel (can't remember the type). I probably would not bother to try and resharpen a masonry bit. In a hammer drill or an electro pneumatic, the carbide insert is usually pretty well destroyed by the time the bit is retired from use. In a machine shop, you would pass your dull tooling back into the "tool crib" for inspection and re-sharpening when done or when a replacement is required.
Yes, it is a time saver and a an absolute necessity to have spares in the commonly used sizes.

Round #3 later, perhaps?

 

[Mayhem]

Here is one simple rule that I learned long ago - tools are only expensive if you lose them!

I actually use Snap-On or Blue-Point tools where ever possible and you may as well buy 1000V rated screwdrivers. Especially those of you who like to tinker with valve amps.

A good set of side cutters, pliers, vice-grips, 6" and 8" adjustable wrenches and a sharp knife are also essential items, as is a permanent marking pen and several rolls of electrical and gaffa tape. (remember that gaffa tape is like the force - it has a light side, a dark side and it holds the universe together!).

You may wish to add a multimeter, 3/8" drive socket set, gas soldering iron, forceps and scissors as you build up your tool box.

 

[ship]

I like a debate and thank you for posting this because your points are important to all in balancing the viewpoints than with the information posted letting everyone make a fair choice. Welcome to the forum, my response is in debate and discussion for the good of all interested and to learn more from the point counterpoint.

Bullet bits are fine for wood and plastic, possibly even superior for it. I don’t drill much wood or plastic anymore, it’s aluminum, steel, brass, bronze and stainless in all types of hard nesses for me now so a more balanced use drill bit, especially one with superior coatings such as TiCN or TiALN work better on the more common sizes than also last much longer in steel and have a chance with stainless steel or tool steel. Just yesterday I was cutting and drilling some 1/4"x2" mild steel plates to mount a mirror ball motor off an I-Beam. The 48" mirror ball weighs 120# so not only did it require sizable materials but accuracy in drilling for it’s mounts. This required multiple ½" holes thru a double thickness of plate and tap drill bits for bolting the plates together. For a homeowner like a school, that is not doing much refined work or does not have the time to properly drill the hole with pilot holes, correct speed and lubricant so as to preserve bit life, the bullet tip might be useful. It takes some training to learn proper drill speeds, oil etc. Without that training even expensive drill bits bite the dust. But for anything major, that bullet tip with it’s chrome finish would not last long. This is my opinion, you speak well of your use and knowledge on the subject and would intend not to infer anything different, this is still my opinion and training not a judgement.

Depends upon the material you are cutting and who is cutting it. I don’t know about you but I prefer to use a center punch to mark my hole while I’m laying it out, than step or walk up the bits in size if not using a TiCN (titanium coated) Uni-bit step bit for anything 1/8" or less in thickness. It also depends upon the cutting angle of the drill bit point angle 118° or 135° as to how clean of a cut verses how much walking it can do, plus the proper speed. With some practice, stepping up your drill bit can be about as fast as sitting around heating up the single drill bit as it cuts, but less heat means longer life no matter what the finish or brand. Your point is correct that the bullet tip is possibly better than a solid split bit if it’s the only drill bit used, but drilling with a single twist bit is not that smart to do often anyway in metal. Bit walking... not with a center punch much less walking/stepping up your drill bit sizes and a 135° tip. They will walk more commonly if the above is not followed as you state - perhaps more than the bullet tip.

The problem I mainly cite with such bullet bits is that you can not use them for stepping up the hole in size. Let’s say you want to drill a ½" dia. Hole in 1/4" plate mild steel. Very common in the lighting industry that size for structures and clamps. With a bullet bit you would have to either use that ½" bit for the only bit which would more quickly dull it, or figure out what size the center point is drilling at so you can use that size bit or one smaller first. That means two bits used. Now granted, with stepping up split tip drill bits, you would have to use at least three sizes of drill bit to get the job done, but it’s a lot easier to drill say a 3/16" hole first, than a 5/16" hole than the final ½" hole than a single ½" hole with a bullet point bit or say a 3/16" than the ½" bit. I would normally go with four bits, but it all depends upon the hardness of the materials. You really don’t have that option with a bullet tip bit.

Let’s say your hole is 3/8" and you discover you need it to be 13/32". Much less 25/64" which would probably be hard to find in the home center/local supplier along with number and letter sizes where appropriate such as for a tap and die set or specific hole size. Bullet bits are not very good at stepping up holes due to the flat or negative angle of their secondary cutting surface and now due to a lack of center positioning, it won’t center too well without something for the point to center on. In other words, one hole and don’t try to improve upon it in going slightly larger unless you have more normal drill bits also in stock. You cannot accurately use a bullet bit to make a already 3/8" hole into a 13/32" hole, much less to make a 3/8" hole into a ½" hole. Can’t use it to make a 10-32 mounting bolt for a 3" Fresnel C-Clamp into a 1/4" mounting bolt hole given you could find a #7 sized Bullet bit for the 1/4-20 tap.

In addition to this drill at an angle and the stepping bullet bit is also much more likely to walk. With a normal bit you start the hole dead on than once started you can move the bit to the desired angle or block something up against the surface to balance the bit at an angle. This would not work to well with a bullet bit because of the interrupted tip.

I would also cite that the standard bullet tip is available in chrome, black oxide if you can find it from Black & Decker for the “premium bits” and perhaps titanium coatings if available though neither are listed on the website, just chrome. Who do you get such even TiN coated bits from given production drilling where you need say 60 or 100 holes in a hard surface without replacing bits? Much less Cobalt and solid carbide bits are not available for special purposes such as drilling pipe - something we don’t do much of in the theater. Schedule 40 black water pipe tears up normal drill bits but I admit I have not tried it with a Bullet bit.

I know I had a pamphlet on the Bullet point somewhere but could not find it to tell me what types of bit other than Black Oxide I believe in a economy off shore brand and most commonly chrome coated were available. The website was not of much use either on this type and coating question. Must be that one drill bit is as good as any other and last just as long in all materials and applications. It would seem that no major suppliers such as J&L, McMaster Carr, Grainger, or Fastenal sell the bullet tip bit either for ease in getting them. Funny, unless I go to a home center, I just can’t find the Bullet bit. That takes time, faxing in an order for same day delivery is much quicker. You would think other suppliers such as industrial suppliers and metal working suppliers will have caught on to the Bullet Bit’s usefulness. If that home center is out of stock... plus the extra prices, what do you do drive around to find more? Now a Bullet Bit proper might live up to more abuse than a standard home center twist bit, bought one at 5/16" once a few months ago, I believe Tool Shop was the brand. Funny, I never had a drill bit shatter before. J&L frequently puts a 64 piece TiCN bit set with index on sale for $30.00. Decent quality 135° plus the index. Might try shopping there than comparing for a general purpose drill bit.

While black oxide and chrome can be fairly durable on common materials if the proper oil is used and used at the proper speed, they will wear out in mild to hard steel plate unless stepped up so the single individual bit does not get as warm and there is less effort to the motor - no matter what the tip type. What is the proper drill speed given two drill sizes in one bit, do you need to slow down the drill bit once you get to the second cutting surface or are you to run the primary cutting edge at a faster than optimum speed? On small drill sizes it won’t matter much but once you get past 1/4" heat is going to become a factor.


As Black & Decker says about the bit, [...eliminating waking which is common to “ordinary” drill bits. (Meaning 118° chrome bits.) Bullet drill bits drill up to four times faster and last seven times longer than “conventional” drill bits. (Or what specific type and size of drill bit was that rating in reference to? A 3/32" drill bit will drill plenty fast.)

These three new bullet sets meet the needs of “serious do-it-yourselfers” as well as “home owners” for all types of projects,]

While the diagram on http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/DocumentView.aspx?DOC_ID=PG_PR_10-01-1999_BulletDrillBits is true to some degree - at least as exaggerated for thin materials, the diagram would not look anything like it were the plate thicker, angle of tip different or speed increased. For thinner materials you are better off using a Unibit anyway.

As I said, I could not find the Bullet pamphlet, I did find one for the Vermont American Sidewinder Drill bit. It says it cuts three times faster than standard jobber drill bits. I assume in their ratings that a standard jobber bit is what Black & Decker calls a conventional drill bit, though I can find a jobber bit in the catalog. Also I assume that the pilot point bit cited is a bullet point. Anyway, Vermont American says a standard drill bit takes 51.7 seconds to drill 25 holes thru 1/4" 1018 carbon steel w/o lubricant. The pilot point 16.3 seconds and the Sidewinder 14.8 seconds. That’s at lest partial data given they did not cite the dia. of the drill bit, rather than here say without any data to back it up.

In ½" 1018 carbon steel, again without lubricant, the standard drill bit lasts 310 holes, the pilot point 29 holes, and the sidewinder 953 holes. There is also data on what they say is 50% less drilling pressure to penetrate the work piece and showing without any specifications it’s less pressure than the pilot point. Again, vendors will say what they want from we are the #1 car dealer to 7 times longer life but not really be specific about the testing to achieve that figure.

Sidewinder bits also are said to be self centering given a 135° tip, and are available in addition to chrome, in cobalt, titanium and their normal surface treatment what ever that is. Non walking it would seem is a common statement.

In other words, everybody has a claim, be it side winders lasting 3 times longer than normal, titanium 6 times longer etc. Again the Vermont American line is for DIY’er’s or like with the bullet not designed to be used all day long almost every day of the week. Industrial drill bits verses home owner drill bits, there is a difference.

I tend to believe un-biased info such as out of McMaster Carr where it’s not a cut sheet from one brand stating how much greater their product is, rather it’s a description of surface treatments, finish types etc. and what each one is going to do for a specific application and no brand names cited. Specific bits for specific purposes.

“Coatings extend drill life by as much as 300% to 800% compared to uncoated tools.” I can about attest to that, depends upon the tip, etc. Drill a few steel rivets out with a jobber verses a bullet tip verses a TiCN tip and see which will last longer and will be easier to use.

As for flipping the material over, I would think you can do so at any point in having drilled your pilot hole as normal in using twist bits. Note also that if you set your depth stop properly, you can flip the material over and continue boring from the other side. With a pilot hole, it’s less frustrating because the smaller drill bit does not need to be depth stopped. If with the bullet tip, that depth stop is not correct, or on the second piece of material cut with the depth stop, there is any metal shavings under the material that depth setting now will allow too deep of a cut given the size of the center drill and you will not be able to use it to guide the drill bit from the opposing side without a sloppy cut. So setting depth cuts is frustrating in general but especially with a bullet tip. In the case that you have to flip your material over, than it’s easier without the bullet tip, instead just use a pilot hole. Not that you normally would need to, what you don’t counter sink your hole’s sharp edges? Note: attempting to do a depth cut on unsupported material is just as difficult no matter what drill bit you are attempting to use. For a centering hole it’s easier to use a smaller sized pilot hole bit.



“A page taken from woodworking technology.” What is this a commercial or did you forget to cite a source? That’s fine just let us know we have a vendor rep on line instead of a “guest” if this is the case. All are welcome as long as it’s on a level playing field. Freud is a good brand of forstner bit, I stock the titanium version of them. Costs more but stays sharper longer. Of note however on a forstner bit is that there is usually a lot more tear out damage from too much pressure at the end of the cut when it’s not supported. In other words on a forstner bit if not supported it can rip chunks out of the back surface. Are we to infer that a bullet bit is or is not like a forstner bit when working unsupported on that tin plate? Not to mention they don’t work very well either in enlarging holes.

Good debate, neither of us will be absolutely right either because its’ subjective and personal opinion for much of the debate. Still interesting to spar with someone taking the time to explain his viewpoint and state it so well. I look forward to your saw blade descriptions and further info on drill bits.

 

[cruiser]

Wonder Bar can be found at: www.barbizon.com =)

 

[miniwyo]

In our shop We use Makita Drills and i have a holster One that my dad used to use for a pistol but started to wear out. After some modifications i can put drills of all sizes in it as well as driving bits and screws in the loops where the bullets go. I have also added some pouches to it. We never resharpen bits we use them until they break because they are so dull. We use a Craftsman tablesaw and it is a Piece of $%!# we use a Dewalt compound mitersaw and a Dewalt Cutoff saw for when we us metal as well as our Hobart Wire Feed Welder. Our Dewalt Industrial Radial Arm Saw is old but in good condition even though it is usually buried by scrap wood and thins as we dont really use it much. On marking your tools DONT FORGET TO MARK YOUR SHARPIES AS WELL!!!! they always seem to runoff on me. I have a 35' wideboy tapemeasure that has the increments on it (very handy) and it never leaves my and or my belt, everyone knows this under threat of being shot in the face with a bazooka. We always have a wish list of what tools we want for our shop and we get usually some just so we can afford emergency things like replacing tools that break suddenly. But hpofully this semester we will get a new stationary aircompressor system as well as a dust collection system and new work benches.

RJ
Rock Springs Wy.