Troubles with our House Camera System

[lcthebeast]

We have a setup with 3 switchers in different areas for our stage/lobby/cable tv/dvd player. Is there one that is dominant which affects all of them? We have have Y connections before the switchers to go to the areas they are in. we have issues with cable tv coming up when there is a signal we're sending to the tvs. Also we have trouble with some of the colors not coming through properly when viewing our stage camera on a second tv, even though the first is getting the exact same signal. We switch to the dvd player and every color seems fine on both once again. Any help or info on RCA/switchers?

 

[Raktor]

Try a powered splitter instead of just Y connectors. That will boost the signal before sending it back out.

 

[museav]

We have a setup with 3 switchers in different areas for our stage/lobby/cable tv/dvd player. Is there one that is dominant which affects all of them? We have have Y connections before the switchers to go to the areas they are in. we have issues with cable tv coming up when there is a signal we're sending to the tvs. Also we have trouble with some of the colors not coming through properly when viewing our stage camera on a second tv, even though the first is getting the exact same signal. We switch to the dvd player and every color seems fine on both once again. Any help or info on RCA/switchers?

Can you tell us a bit more about the system, especially regarding the "stage/lobby/cable tv/dvd player" as I am having trouble understanding what that is? What are the switchers switching, in other words, what are the sources to the switchers? Is everything composite video? What is the actual equipment involved? Where do the cable TV and RCA factors come in? How old is the system and who installed it? How far are the signals running for the different displays?

 

[lcthebeast]

We have our main source, which is the stage camera, and that splits to 3 main areas through Coax runs Booth/Backstage/Lobby. Lobby has its own switcher for RCA for a dvd player/laptop/stage camera. The booth has its own RCA switcher with cable/stage camera. Backstage only has the stage camera feed going through. The lobby run of the house camera is about 75ft, then from the switcher to the 2 tvs, 50ft and 75ft. The booth has every run being about 6ft (and we aren't having any issues with it). Backstage run is 125ft and the picture is pretty terrible, but its split so many times back there, we just left it(and it usually works decent enough).

This camera system was installed about 6 or 7 years ago, and it is definite mess of cabling going everywhere. The job was done horribly.

A power splitter at the main split instead of just using Y's sounds like a great idea. Everything is a mixture of RCA (1 video, 2 audio signals) and Coax.

 

[jordanbb]

If you have the resources to upgrade your system, I would highly recommend that you do so and switch to a digital signal transmission. There are two options that I would recommend, depending on your hardware (ie. cameras, DVD players, TV sets):

The first would be to use firewire cables, if your cameras support this. For your long distance runs (75 ft, 125 ft), you can either use firewire repeater boxes, which can extend the effective length up to 1000 meters without signal loss, or you can use DistanceDV, a form of firewire cable designed exactly for your purpose. They come in lengths of up to 50 m (150 ft). Of course, if your console is not digital or does not handle firewire, you will have to get a seperate firewire adapter that can convert the signal back into analog.

Your other option, which is probably more expensive but a far better investment, is to use HDMI. Although the cables are expensive, this will allow for full HD transmission from start to end. Even if you don't use HD now, you no doubt will sometime in the future, and you will eventually need to make the switch. Since HDMI is still new, the standards are a bit sketchy, so I cannot tell you for certain what cables support what distances. With the proper setup though, it is possible to run over hundred feet. There are amplifiers and repeaters, and "active HDMI cables" that boost their own signal within the cable for lengths up to 100 ft.

If your hardware does not support HDMI (ex. not an HDTV, only DV camera, etc), adapters to RCA, VGA, and others are extremely common and can be purchased at any consumer electronics store.

If you are going to pursue this route, just go to any professional audio/video store, explain your setup and that you'd like to use HDMI, and they will easily hook you up with the right equipment. Just make sure to bring along the specs of your current equipment.

Since HDMI and firewire are both digital signals, splitting the signal is not hard to do either.

I hope this helps, just remember, the main concern that you have to watch out for is if your cables can handle the distance. If they can't, you will have severe signal loss in transmission, as it sounds like the problem is now.

EDIT: Sorry, I also forgot to mention that Firewire will not carry audio! However, RCA, possibly with signal boosters, will suffice for audio. The signal that must be carried for audio is much less complex and does not require the same power and cable shielding as does video. HDMI carries pretty much everything and anything you want through a single cable.

 

[Chris15]

Since HDMI and firewire are both digital signals, splitting the signal is not hard to do either.pretty much everything and anything you want through a single cable.

I would have to disagree... I can split analog audio with a Y lead and be certain there will be no issues, but should I try that with an AES signal, I do not expect the same results. Digital tends to be more fussy about impedance than analog and doing a hard split is one of the quickest ways known to alter the load impedance...

Video might be different, splitting video using Y leads is probably the first problem in the OP's situation. Video tends to prefer baluns and proper splitters and such fun to Y splitting.

I would also argue that we are talking about a stage camera feed to backstage and the lobby and that there is no foreseeable reason that this should be a HD signal, you did want people INSIDE rather than getting a better experience in the foyer right?

All that aside, I'm still not getting a clear understanding of the existing setup.
Sources:
Cable TV
DVD Player
Camera

Outputs:
Booth
Stage
Foyer 1
Foyer 2

Is that correct?
Its the bits between ins and outs that are unclear. Do we go source -> Y lead -> switcher input? If so, are there I guess 2 or more Y leads in the camera signal? I get the impression that the foyer switcher then feeds the 2 monitors, what performs the required split?

What cable type is in use? Are we talking about running video over Rat Shack shielded RCA that's just shielded audio cable or are we talking RG6 or RG11 or something coax? I presume that the audio is behaving at least satisfactorily.

 

[mrb]

you cant 'Y' a video signal. You need to use a distribution amplifier. When you Y it, you screw up the impedance and cause all sorts of things to go haywire. I saw someone blow the output of a MX50 mixer from having a string of Y cables and a couple hundred feet of cable going to some televisions. So much common mode voltage it blew up the mixer.

 

[jordanbb]

Sorry, when I say split the digital signal, I meant that you would need some sort of hub or powered splitter. However, if you run all of your sources to one central location such as the booth, then run separate cables to each output from there, you would have no problem. I'm not quite sure I understand your setup though, so maybe you want to run one cable to the foyer and then use a splitter there to run to each TV, depending on how many you have.

Also depends on where you're putting your hub and how/to what extent you need to control it.