Truck Estimates

[bobgaggle]

Maybe this belongs in another forum, but I'm shipping scenery so here I post.

How do you guys figure out how many trucks you need to ship a set? I know there's apps for concerts where you tell it how many road cases you got and it'll 3D tetris them into a truck, but I've got a but of flats and the front half of a sailing ship with a bow sprit and whisky barrels and a telephone pole and I don't know how to confidently say "yes this will all fit in one 53' trailer". Whos got some tips and tricks?

Side note: I know the hard way is to measure everything I've got and puzzle it out on paper, trying to avoid that if possible...

 

[Van]

Measure the big pieces, figure out how they will sit then figure out how much open space will be around them and what you can cram into that. Remember you have 3 dimensions to work in, load bars and dance floors are your friends. If you have the room layout everything in the shop and get a rough idea of the footprint and go from there.
This really got me thinking. I've beed packing shows for festivals and tours since I was in High school. I don't think anyone ever taught me I just learned by doing and watching my bosses. Now days I can pretty much look at a pile of stuff and say, " yep that's a 53'" or "NFW that'll fit in two trucks!"

 

[bobgaggle]

Measure the big pieces, figure out how they will sit then figure out how much open space will be around them and what you can cram into that. Remember you have 3 dimensions to work in, load bars and dance floors are your friends. If you have the room layout everything in the shop and get a rough idea of the footprint and go from there.
This really got me thinking. I've beed packing shows for festivals and tours since I was in High school. I don't think anyone ever taught me I just learned by doing and watching my bosses. Now days I can pretty much look at a pile of stuff and say, " yep that's a 53'" or "NFW that'll fit in two trucks!"

Typically we put our stuff in shipping containers as we're done with it and send it away. Our cruise client handles their own shipping and logistics and will amass all the containers at the yard until the ship finally shows up in port, then load on. Usually not a problem to get another container if we need it. This particular job we're handling shipping and don't want to pay for more truck than we need so I've got to build a new skill haha. Not to mention trucks are a different size than sea cans

 

[Amiers]

Weight it out, hire someone to play Tetris for you. If not Heavy in the front light in the back. Make a shelf in the front toss loose light crap on top load bar strap rinse repeat. If you got a rental company around that does national gigs ask them to help. I’m sure their guys would love to pack a truck. Hell I know I would lol.

 

[RonaldBeal]

The three metrics for truck packs are footprint, weight or volume. Unless you have a lot of ballast and counterweights, or a very dense set, weight should not be an issue. (44,000 pounds is usually the upper limit, but I start getting nervous above 40K) Because a lot of sets have a lots of irregular shaped pieces and not a lot of stacking roadcases then volume calculations don't really help... which leaves footprint. The standard dry van air-ride, e-track trailer in the U.S. is 102"x 53'... I use 48'x8' to leave room for error, loadbars, ratchet straps, etc... 384 square feet. (don't forget overhangs/cantilevers are part of the footprint)... Just do a quick list of the footprint of each piece, if they add up to more than 384, you may need another truck....

Caveats... if, for example, you have a set piece that is 6' wide and 16' long, unless you have some 2' wide pieces to go along the side, that 2' space may go unused, so the footprint may be 8' x16' instead of the actual 6'x16' of the actual piece.

Good luck

 

[kicknargel]

Sadly, puzzle-it-out-on-paper (or CAD) is probably the way. I tend to lump groups of items together so I'm puzzling with fewer, bigger pieces. If using paper, don't draw; rather cut out shapes you can slide around.

For very odd shapes, a crude model (digital or physical) may help.

 

[soundman]

Another vote for drawing it out or taping it out on the shop floor if you have the time and space before you need to confirm the amount of cans required.

 

[themuzicman]

On all my tour packs we measure every box and play Vectorworks tetris. I have a generic 3D truck rectangle and I make all my boxes in 3D. Unfortunately not all departments embrace 3D drafting so when I hand it off to the TD I typically shoot the 3D file over and then viewport out all the views they need and then a generic file of every box with both 2D and 3D symbols.

I didn't create the attached file but when I hand my file off to the TD it has recommendations on where I would like to see load control installed in the pack. I have load-bar symbols and ratchet symbols so as I'm working I know exactly how much room I'm losing. I also budget about 5% slop in case they have to load-out on an uphill incline with spaghetti arm truck loaders.

It's a lot easier to figure out load control when you know the trucking company and know how they lay out e-track in their trucks. Clark Transfer and Showmotion tend to have really wonderful e-track options, whereas the other entertainment transports get generic trailers and rarely modify their internal structures so if you're figuring out a dense pack you have to keep it loose until you see the trailer at the dock because sometimes they may only have vertical e-track every 6' or a single run of horizontal e-track at knee height and another at nose height and you're stuck getting creative on how to secure the stuff. It's not as easy as sea containers where you can just have a welder standing by on the dock to weld in eyebolts wherever you need load control, so if you're keeping it inexpensive and you have a lot of stuff be ready to throw all the planning to the wind in order to keep the load secure for a long haul. More is better, if the air-ride goes out on the trailer and you had half as much load control as you anticipated because you wanted to hold tight to the initial plans the set will show up to the destination in pieces because it was blammed into the trailers ceiling on every bump in the road.

I do all weight measurements in an excel spreadsheet - before we leave the rental shop I use a freight scale or load cell to get all the box weights. While you may have 44,000# to play with, you need to remember you can only load 20,000# per single axle or 34,000# per tandem axle - if you're just using a generic freight company and they shoot out a single axle trailer this has the potential to get not fun with a ton of copper or ballast but the entertainment shippers I know only send out tandems so for me it's typically not a thing I think about. If a cop thinks a truck is overweight they'll bust out a portable scale that measures axle by axle on the side of the road and you'll have a very grumpy driver who had to redistribute the load on the side of the road. Also, if your trucker shows up with a mega-sleeper you're going to lose some weight from your total load-hauling capability so if it's only going a few hours and it's a load you know may be edging close to weight limits request a daycab from the trucking company. I can't get Google to confirm this, but every Clark driver I've ever worked with shouts that weight behind the rear axle is effectively doubled on the rear axle - basic lever physics says this seems in the realm of accurate though. All fringe situations but if you're working with a budget dispatch to keep trucking costs down it has the potential to bite you if planning isn't done in advance.

You'll see in the file attached that it is very much 2D - left side is Nose, right side is Tail, and then there are slices to show stacking order. Bottom of the page is the floor, top of the page is the ceiling. 1 of 7 trucks I think? A ton of tetris, but when we started figuring out the tetris we were really confident this would all fit in 5 trucks. It was a few hours of tetris, and no fancy computer programs but accurate measurements made sure the initial load out went pretty smoothly.

 

[RonaldBeal]

I attached the truck pack part of my prep spreadsheet.
Each square is 6"x6", and I rough in case sizes.... I typically leave a few feet at the end for slop, etc.
I use the cell merge function to create the boxes/spaces.

1st sheet is a blank, whilke the other 3 are examples, with the left side being the bottom, and right side being the top.
Feel free to use, modify, etc.
RB

 

[Aaron Becker]

I also budget about 5% slop in case they have to load-out on an uphill incline with spaghetti arm truck loaders.

I feel attacked.

 

[Aaron Becker]

Do any of you experts on tour doing truck planning also take into account your truck loading in reference to what you need on the stage first and what will be last off and would otherwise hold up the truck if it needed to be first loaded? I'm sure you do, just never a role I've been in. Always seemed to work out for the tours I've worked local on.

 

[themuzicman]

Do any of you experts on tour doing truck planning also take into account your truck loading in reference to what you need on the stage first and what will be last off and would otherwise hold up the truck if it needed to be first loaded?

Oh yeah - I’m going to use an average one nighter as an example because larger shows are different with different needs. So a typical one nighter is 4 trucks these (those?) days. Usually order is Truck one is lighting, 2 is audio, 3 and 4 are Set/Props. First in is last out.

So while the first truck may be LX, I in audio will horse trade space somewhere in the tail of the pack and just bury my FOH and X-Stage snakes in there - I brag to the audio locals it keeps them from breaking their backs doing 2 trucks, but what it does for me is gives me all the space in the world free from people to get my long runs ran. In return I always trade the LX FOH package and offer to push it to and from the lobby for them so that package ends up on truck 2. Usually if the show has a Marley deck that gets buried somewhere near the speaker towers because often they end up getting placed at around the same time in a day.

Truck 2 also almost always inevitably ends up with wardrobe that is laundered daily, typically you know it’ll be dry enough to pack on the out, whereas dry clean garments go on truck 4 or 3 because it’s first out at load in and A. Those gondolas are a way to free up space really quickly and B. Wardrobe isn’t typically called into two or three hours into the in anyway. Office Workboxes also tend to move between Truck 1 and 2 depending on how much support staff the show has and how much infrastructure you need right in the AM.

Truck 1 and 2 also almost always get softgoods- you can’t load them in with a set in place and can’t take then out until a set is gone.

on shows doing split weeks with >4 trucks the best head carps I know shuffle 20% of the pack stop to stop to make sure cut scenery and gear sits on a truck you can just park for the Day - especially important if you’re single docking the load in (or playing Tempe or San Jose where Frank Lloyd Wright built massive curved loading docks that trucks have hell backing into). Cut as much slop out of the day as possible on a single-day in, It’s all about chasing those sweet naps.

 

[Amiers]

Oh yeah - I’m going to use an average one nighter as an example because larger shows are different with different needs. So a typical one nighter is 4 trucks these (those?) days. Usually order is Truck one is lighting, 2 is audio, 3 and 4 are Set/Props. First in is last out.

So while the first truck may be LX, I in audio will horse trade space somewhere in the tail of the pack and just bury my FOH and X-Stage snakes in there - I brag to the audio locals it keeps them from breaking their backs doing 2 trucks, but what it does for me is gives me all the space in the world free from people to get my long runs ran. In return I always trade the LX FOH package and offer to push it to and from the lobby for them so that package ends up on truck 2. Usually if the show has a Marley deck that gets buried somewhere near the speaker towers because often they end up getting placed at around the same time in a day.

Truck 2 also almost always inevitably ends up with wardrobe that is laundered daily, typically you know it’ll be dry enough to pack on the out, whereas dry clean garments go on truck 4 or 3 because it’s first out at load in and A. Those gondolas are a way to free up space really quickly and B. Wardrobe isn’t typically called into two or three hours into the in anyway. Office Workboxes also tend to move between Truck 1 and 2 depending on how much support staff the show has and how much infrastructure you need right in the AM.

Truck 1 and 2 also almost always get softgoods- you can’t load them in with a set in place and can’t take then out until a set is gone.

on shows doing split weeks with >4 trucks the best head carps I know shuffle 20% of the pack stop to stop to make sure cut scenery and gear sits on a truck you can just park for the Day - especially important if you’re single docking the load in (or playing Tempe or San Jose where Frank Lloyd Wright built massive curved loading docks that trucks have hell backing into). Cut as much slop out of the day as possible on a single-day in, It’s all about chasing those sweet naps.

Don’t even get me started about Gammage.

 

[RonaldBeal]

Do any of you experts on tour doing truck planning also take into account your truck loading in reference to what you need on the stage first and what will be last off and would otherwise hold up the truck if it needed to be first loaded? I'm sure you do, just never a role I've been in. Always seemed to work out for the tours I've worked local on.

Yes...
On the Spreadsheet I linked above, The three example trucks were part of a 13 truck rock and roll arena tour. 2 Rigging and 2 set trucks dumped first, then LX trucks 1, 2 &3, then production, video, 2 audio, backline, wardrobe, etc... We put floor lights on backline, so they were out of the way until needed, and we put LX FOH with Audio FOH on the Audio truck, so it could all push at once to and from the same place.
If you dump in the wrong order, stuff just sits in the way, and slows things down... Even on one and two truck tours, the order is about the same, just within the 2 trucks.

 

[Aaron Becker]

Kudos to those of you that have it figured out. Having worked as a local for several large tours, it's incredible the planning (or lack thereof) that goes into the truck loads. Well orchestrated, nobody knows it even happened. Poorly executed - it becomes blatantly obvious someone or something got screwed up.

I've been on shows where trucks easily get blocked due to staging the wrong stuff at the dock. Resulted in department heads having screaming matches on the dock, while locals were being told to unload half a truck, which brought the rest of the out to a grinding halt on stage because soft goods/LX could no longer move because of a blocked stage exit/full stage deck. Then the stacking area got blocked too. Then nobody could coil feeder because they got blocked by crap waiting to get stacked. It was a total zoo. I think we left at 9am. Scheduled go home was like 2am. Nobody was happy. Nobody.

sorry to derail the thread. Carry on, all.

 

[Amiers]

Kudos to those of you that have it figured out. Having worked as a local for several large tours, it's incredible the planning (or lack thereof) that goes into the truck loads. Well orchestrated, nobody knows it even happened. Poorly executed - it becomes blatantly obvious someone or something got screwed up.

I've been on shows where trucks easily get blocked due to staging the wrong stuff at the dock. Resulted in department heads having screaming matches on the dock, while locals were being told to unload half a truck, which brought the rest of the out to a grinding halt on stage because soft goods/LX could no longer move because of a blocked stage exit/full stage deck. Then the stacking area got blocked too. Then nobody could coil feeder because they got blocked by crap waiting to get stacked. It was a total zoo. I think we left at 9am. Scheduled go home was like 2am. Nobody was happy. Nobody.

sorry to derail the thread. Carry on, all.

Bet the locals and standbys were happy because of the OT

 

[Aaron Becker]

Bet the locals and standbys were happy because of the OT

honestly, most of us wanted to go home. OT wasn’t a thing for most of us, lots of us were there from show call, others just because they liked being in a theatre and it wasn’t a pleasant call.

the tour was also one who didn’t let us (local) do any of our own rep plot / reset until their TRUCKS WERE GONE. Not just off the stage. Entirely off the premises. I get it, there are reasons. But we asked politely if we could start throwing weight - and were told absolutely not. This was after they sorted out their truck debacle and were only occupying the dock. So after they left at 5, we still had hours of reset / pre-set to do for the next incoming show. Nevermind the fact at that hour - locals start dropping like flies.Many hands make light work.well, little hands make things take longer.

 

[cbrandt]

I attached the truck pack part of my prep spreadsheet.
Each square is 6"x6", and I rough in case sizes.... I typically leave a few feet at the end for slop, etc.
I use the cell merge function to create the boxes/spaces.

I love using excel for truck packs. It is an accessible and straightforward tool that's easy to pass off to whomever becomes responsible. It isn't as perfect as CAD modelling, but when you're working with relatively standard size cases, you can get a truck pack done very quickly and fairly accurately.

 

[Lextech]

honestly, most of us wanted to go home. OT wasn’t a thing for most of us, lots of us were there from show call, others just because they liked being in a theatre and it wasn’t a pleasant call.

the tour was also one who didn’t let us (local) do any of our own rep plot / reset until their TRUCKS WERE GONE. Not just off the stage. Entirely off the premises. I get it, there are reasons. But we asked politely if we could start throwing weight - and were told absolutely not. This was after they sorted out their truck debacle and were only occupying the dock. So after they left at 5, we still had hours of reset / pre-set to do for the next incoming show. Nevermind the fact at that hour - locals start dropping like flies.Many hands make light work.well, little hands make things take longer.

Tell me this was not an IATSE house or tour. That should never happen.

 

[themuzicman]

Tell me this was not an IATSE house or tour. That should never happen.

Unfortunately it's more common than you think, especially on the low-tier S SET contracts where you have young first-time Head Carpenters who have the head rush of newly found authority without the experience or technical footing to back up their egos. A lot of them fall back on their macho facade to cover for the fact that they don't feel empowered to make decisions, and blindly trust that decisions made by the TD and Production Staff were the end-all be-all of decisions and they are reticent to shift from those plans because they aren't sure in themselves.

I've been lucky enough that on almost all of my tours the production personnel have toured before and want to see young crews thrive, but every now and again you see a tour where a bulk of the Designers/Associates/Production Personnel haven't toured (it's not as crazy as you think once you know how these decisions are made) and they have these ideas of how touring should go but not an accurate boots on the ground picture, they talk a big game, scare the crews into thinking that's how it needs to be, and the crews blindly follow suite because they just don't know any better.

Long story short: Blame producers being stingy on these lower-tier contracts. It's the blind leading the blind all because they couldn't be bothered to pay a bit more to hire an HC with experience in order to train up the Assistant Carp to step into those shoes on their next go-round and instead called up UNCSA and asked for their most promising graduating undergrad TD's.