Trying to figure out how my lighting network works

[gafftaper]

So even though my theater is only 5 years old, I don't have any drawings of how my lighting network was set up. I've been trying to track down what goes where and what my possibilities for expanding are. I would appreciate your going through what I have written below and helping me figure out what all is going on. I have a Strand Palette VL, Dimmers, and Strand Vision Net touch panels in the booth and stage manager's panel. In my dimmer room I have a rack in my dimmer room at the bottom of the rack everything comes in and out.

From there everything runs through a switch that injects provides POE

Port 21 and 22 on the patch panel connect to a Strand N21 Node. Here is what the screens show on the N21

Output #1 on Node 1 leads to a 6 port Pathway DMX Repeater. I have no idea where this connects to next. I'm thinking perhaps my architectural lighting? I have a bunch of Colorblasts on my house walls that come out of universe 1. Going through the Patch Bay legend above, it doesn't list my electrics. I have DMX ports on each electric. Perhaps this is where the channels on the DMX repeater lead to or would the electric's possibly come from the House D/A? Thoughts? Output #2 labled to House D/A heads into the wall. Again I have no idea where this goes? I'm guessing it heads to another rack mounted node. But haven't seen it in the theater. I'll do some more searching tomorrow.

Node 2 outputs 3 and 4 are even more mysterious. The wires disappear into the walls. Is "VN" likely Vision Net? Why is it inactive? Thoughts?

Finally out in my catwalks I have DMX ports all over the place. They are all Pathway Path Port Uno's

Opening them up I see that they have a little jumper block. They are currently all set to the "net" setting. But they have jumper options for DMX 1-4. So my Palette VL currently has 2 universes. If I purchased two more universes, expanding to a total of four, could I go around my theater and reset these jumpers to assign these ports to one of four universes? What happens if I was to buy 6 more universes? Would I have to replace my nodes?

I'm pretty clueless about how all this networking works. Thanks in advance for the advice you have to offer.
Gaff

 

[Rob]

Generally I think your system is well documented and you have a lot of versatility at your hands. One of those engraved plates will have the name of the Stand installer on it.

The Palette is likely outputting ShowNet. The Vision Net is outputting raw DMX and the N21 gateway is taking it off and onto the system. The UNOs are likely setup to receive ShowNet, but can also receive Net2, sACN, ArtNet and Pathport.

Check the Patch 'Routing' on the Palette to see how many universes of what is going out.

Each Uno can receive from any (and from Many) universes. Leave the jumpers on NET IN and manage the patch with the Pathport Manager software frown Pathway. http://pathwayconnect.com/index.php/products/software/151-pathport-manager

Contact us with support questions on PM53. [email protected].

 

[Van]

Did Stagecraft do you Lighting system?

 

[gafftaper]

@Van No it came from Dimensional

 

[Van]

@Van No it came from Dimensional

Ok, I was going to look through as-builts for you....

 

[gafftaper]

Ok, I was going to look through as-builts for you....

Thanks, that's what I figured you were offering.

 

[gafftaper]

I have determined that the DMX outputs on my four electrics are not Nodes. Just dumb DMX ports. So that explains where the Pathport DMX repeater goes to and why I couldn't get anything on my electrics to work on universe 1, they all are coming out of a node set for universe 2, decoded to DMX, sent through the splitter and off to my electrics. (Still have to find the other two of these boxes as there are 6 outputs from that repeater).

I still can't find the "house D/A" listed on the Node. Since I have 16 Colorblast 12's on my house walls I'm guessing that's what this is for. But I have never been able to figure out where and how they get there data. Also there must be a big power supply(ies) somewhere that I've never found (probably hidden in a fan room somewhere that I don't have access to)

 

[gafftaper]

Generally I think your system is well documented and you have a lot of versatility at your hands. One of those engraved plates will have the name of the Stand installer on it.

The Palette is likely outputting ShowNet. The Vision Net is outputting raw DMX and the N21 gateway is taking it off and onto the system. The UNOs are likely setup to receive ShowNet, but can also receive Net2, sACN, ArtNet and Pathport.

Check the Patch 'Routing' on the Palette to see how many universes of what is going out.

Each Uno can receive from any (and from Many) universes. Leave the jumpers on NET IN and manage the patch with the Pathport Manager software frown Pathway. http://pathwayconnect.com/index.php/products/software/151-pathport-manager

Contact us with support questions on PM53. [email protected].

Thanks Rob! My Palette currently only puts out 2 universes. But If I'm understanding correctly my Pathway Uno's can handle up to four universes. So I should be able to buy two more universes and use the Pathport manager software to configure the Uno's to re-distribute the universes how I want throughout the theater.

If I wanted to put a whole universe on each of my electrics instead of sharing one universe through the Pathway repeater, I could purchase another 4 channel node, pull the copper lines to the dumb dmx boxes on my electrics out of the repeater and run them as four new universes out of the new node. I would then simply have to sacrifice a line or two into the switch to hook it all up.

So I could quite easily expand out to 8 universes. One on each of my four electrics by adding a new node and four divided up by reconfiguring my network of Uno's.

By the way Rob this is Mark from CB, it was great talking with you at LDI (love your chocolate!). I wish I would have started trying to figure this all out last week and I could have discussed it with you in person!

 

[Scarrgo]

I am jealous...

Sean...

 

[RickR]

Chances are Strand has your as-builts or at least system 'submittal' drawings. The installer should as well. They should also be on file with the school facilities department. These folks can get very touchy about giving out their golden binders, but some inquiry is in order as well as some funds for copying, "O & M" books can get be multiple 4" binders.

My understanding of Vision Net systems is that they can only interact with consoles and dimmers via DMX. A recent project had 2 node ports, In & Out just for that purpose.

 

[Rob]

The Unos can output any universe - not just 1, 2, 3 or 4. The jumpers are just convenient if you don't have Pathport Manager. Your console can also output to any universe. The authorization just counts the attributes in your lighting rig but they can be patched anywhere on the DMX spectrum. This is achieved with patch routing. Having an Uno for each electric would be convenient as the lights on that pipe can start at DMX 1. But with a little paperwork it's not necessary.

 

[AudJ]

My understanding of Vision Net systems is that they can only interact with consoles and dimmers via DMX. A recent project had 2 node ports, In & Out just for that purpose.

I'm not sure it is always done that way; my space has c21, vision.net, and preset palette II - all shownet - Cat5 only. There was no DMX at all in the room until I pointed out that there were supposed to be many DMX ports according to the spec that was not followed (in many ways). The compromise was one DMX node that floats where needed.

 

[RickR]

@AudJ It's certainly not always done that way, but when I designed a system to record from the console it took 3 passes of design drawings to get all the ports needed to do the job. Perhaps there is newer hardware in the last couple of years, but that's what was installed in 2014. Can you record from the console to a preset button station or touch screen control?

 

[AudJ]

@AudJ Can you record from the console to a preset button station or touch screen control?

Not positive if this is what you mean- The vision.net is set up to record a snapshot of the c21, by holding a preset button on a predetermined wall station. It doesn't care if the console or vision.net sent the values to the dimmers. Our vision.net does not have a touchscreen, maybe that is the difference.

Since it was installed, I have wished the console and wall stations played nicer together. Software updates have improved this, but both console and architectural controls can still activate the dimmers simultaneously. Sometimes adds a little excitement during rehearsals, although been lucky enough to have not encountered this issue during a show.

Interesting this thread started the same day our shownet network was having problems - turns out a faulty network switch was causing signal to get some places, but not others. We happened to be in there tracing all the cat 5.

 

[RickR]

The question was about where the levels come from when recording. Strand told me that the vision net processor didn't connect to the strand.net system. It cost them quite a bit to make that work. Yes, enforcing the spec's can get rough.

The logic of how consoles and buttons merge has lots of tricking details. Having both overlap (HTP) is the simplest to understand. "Lockout" buttons or covers can prevent some of the accidents. Some sites have automatic transfer when the console is powered. That can lead to unexpected blackouts, but you always know which is running.

 

[gafftaper]

Thanks everyone, I think I've got it figured out now.

@Rob it looks like a Pathway Quattro would be a great solution for me. I can pull those four dmx runs out of my 1 universe DMX repeater, plug them into the back of the Quattro, Run one line from my switch to the Quattro and I will have a separate universe on each electric without breaking a sweat. Plus I'm considering upgrading my console in the next year or so. As long as I go with a console that speaks ACN or Artnet the Quattro will be good to go. Much better than buying another Strand node now and then needing to replace it later if I don't upgrade to a new Strand console. Thanks again!

 

[EdSavoie]

Not to become the guy who is known for low-budget things, but has anyone considered running an OLA server as the backend to all this? OLA speaks just abiut every protocol under the sun (yep, even Shownet) and gives you all the expandability you need, and it is free. All you need is a spare computer to run it, and by operating two servers off of a pair of NUCs (Or those Core 2 laptops lying around) you get redundancy.

 

[VRommel]

Thanks everyone, I think I've got it figured out now.

@Rob it looks like a Pathway Quattro would be a great solution for me. I can pull those four dmx runs out of my 1 universe DMX repeater, plug them into the back of the Quattro, Run one line from my switch to the Quattro and I will have a separate universe on each electric without breaking a sweat. Plus I'm considering upgrading my console in the next year or so. As long as I go with a console that speaks ACN or Artnet the Quattro will be good to go. Much better than buying another Strand node now and then needing to replace it later if I don't upgrade to a new Strand console. Thanks again!

Good Morning!

Let us know if you need a referral to a Pathway Connectivity dealer to give you a quotation of sales price, lead time and delivery terms for a Quattro.

Best Regards,
Pathway Connectivity

Van Rommel
Director Business