Tub is electrics ?

[SteveB]

I'm having a conversation yesterday with a good buddy who's a Local One broadway head prop-person. He's describing some of the stuff needed for an upcoming (and not named here) show that he's head on.

Seems there's a functional tub, complete with hot water, etc... so needs a hot water heater, Ph checked, etc... and that according to Broadway rules, it fall's under the responsibility of the electrics department, not props. Something about because the tub gets a hot water heater, which requires electricity, it's electrics, where as if it got plumbing to the building hot water system (which is never done apparently) it would be props.

Odd Broadway rule that I thought I'd share.

 

[JD]

Ha! Division of responsibilities for Broadway theater is the butt of many jokes!
Although, it does beg the question, How does the audience know the water is hot? Unless steam is visible, which then begs the question, Is the water hotter than regulations allow?

Ah yes, only the tip of the iceberg!

 

[Erik456]

Stand lights is another fun one for the touring Broadway world. Sometimes it's props, sometimes electrics, or even audio. I've run into many instances where props will place them on the music stands, and even run the cable. But electricians have to come plug them in. All depends on the (usually) IATSE local rules.

 

[SteveB]

Ha! Division of responsibilities for Broadway theater is the butt of many jokes!
Although, it does beg the question, How does the audience know the water is hot? Unless steam is visible, which then begs the question, Is the water hotter than regulations allow?

Ah yes, only the tip of the iceberg!

It's Broadway. The actors are not getting into a tub filled with cold water. I would imagine that's an Equity rule in any case.

 

[zmb]

Is this tub being filled once it's on stage?
And then it has to get rolled off the stage each night and drained somewhere?

Are there issues with the pH of the nation's tap water requiring that it be tested each night? Never have checked the pH at home before stepping into the shower just to be sure that it won't eat my skin away.

Should we request our theaters now be provided with connections to the building water for the one time someone comes in and wants real water on stage? Which just sounds like it has a ton of things that could go wrong.

 

[SteveB]

Is this tub being filled once it's on stage?
And then it has to get rolled off the stage each night and drained somewhere?

Are there issues with the pH of the nation's tap water requiring that it be tested each night? Never have checked the pH at home before stepping into the shower just to be sure that it won't eat my skin away.

Should we request our theaters now be provided with connections to the building water for the one time someone comes in and wants real water on stage? Which just sounds like it has a ton of things that could go wrong.

Yes,

No, but I think it's just checked on a schedule as it's a closed loop hot water heater system. But didn't ask the reason.

Most (many ?) theaters have a slop sink nearby where you can garden hose tap hot & cold. Our space can't as we have no building hot water excepting costume shop and dressing room showers. We couldn't do a Penn & Teller tour many years ago as we had no hot water.


My post was mostly being amused at the odd rules on Broadway. I know that in Local 52, the film IATSE local in NYC, running water is a dresser responsibility, not electrics.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[jglodeklights]

It would make sense that if the system is closed loop it would require the checking of the pH. A severe imbalance in the pH can lead to skin irritation, and can be indicative of the presence of bacteria. Not much different than your everyday swimming pool. Even if the water is changed each performance, stuff can still get stuck in there and bad things can grow.

 

[techieman33]

It would make sense that if the system is closed loop it would require the checking of the pH. A severe imbalance in the pH can lead to skin irritation, and can be indicative of the presence of bacteria. Not much different than your everyday swimming pool. Even if the water is changed each performance, stuff can still get stuck in there and bad things can grow.

Yeah, I highly doubt they will be able to get all of the water out of that system every night, there will always be some moisture and pockets of water for things to grow.

 

[tjrobb]

If they chlorinate, that can easily raise the pH. This may the cause for checking.

 

[lighttechie5948]

According to my notes from North Carolina School of the Arts Intro to Electrics course, Electrics could be responsible for:

• Realizing the lighting design
• Setting up the control and power path
• Conventionals
• Moving Lights
• Fog, Haze, Smoke
• Nitrogen
• CO2 Dry Ice
• Glycogen
• Pyrotechnics
• Water FX
• Lasers
• Projectors
• Stills
• Video

So yes, in some situations, water FX do fall under electrics.

 

[jglodeklights]

FACE PALM. Just because ONE school of DESIGN thinks certain things fall under electrics, doesn't make it the case. Especially now. I'm sorry, but I'm a lighting designer, not a video designer. Nor do I, as an ME, know what multimedia needs to make the projectors work. Have I hleped make projections work, yes, and in a higher end situation I've fixed things to make the HD content play on our media servers. However, should I make it work with the videographers? No. But I helped to do so. Also, Pyrotechnicas? I don't have a license to set off fireworks. Why should I? Their system should not be integrated into mine for safety purposes. Why do I need to deal with it. There are pyrotechnichians to handle it.

 

[lighttechie5948]

Joe:

1. NCSA has both a design program and a Lighting Technology (electrics) program. Both highly regarded in their own rights. The Lighting Technology program is run by the current production electrician for two Broadway tours. But irrelevant.

2. The notes I posted clearly state that the following bullet points are things that could fall under the electrics department. They certainly didn't say that that these areas always fall under the electrics department, nor did they say that you as an individual were qualified to perform any of those tasks. It merely stated that those tasks were often, at times, things that have come to fall under the electrics department. Being that the notes were generated by the head of our lighting technology program, who has worked on countless tours and productions, I would assume (reluctantly, because remember what happens when you assume), that he generated each of these bullet points in response to things he has seen himself responsible for in the past.

But hey, what do I know. I'm just ONE DESIGNER.

Joe Naftal

 

[DuckJordan]

JG i think the real reason this falls to electrics instead of props is due to how much electric is involved. From the water heater (going to be electric) to the pump to make the water run. Sounds like a major electrics item.

 

[danTt]

By that logic one could argue that the installation of sets (battery powered screw guns, electric saws), vacuuming of carpets (Oh, the vacuum plugs in too?) and wardrobe (Steamers, irons, sewing machines...) are all really part of electrics job. But if one did argue that, they would probably be doing so on their local 1 exam where such things are apparently worth debating. It seems like a stretch to put the tub under the domain of electrics, but by the same token it's a stretch to put it anywhere else. It's the same amount of crew regardless of what you want to call them, at the end of the day.

 

[Les]

From my experience as a pyrotechnician, Electrics is usually the department we interface with the most. That doesn't mean they do any of the work - just that they are our contacts. Of course, every event is different and most of the time we work directly with the PM. It is usually something as simple as "can you get us power here?" or "may we use that lift?". We're a self-sufficient group otherwise, and we really prefer it that way.

We do work with Sound as well, but usually only if we need Coms or a feed for Timecode. Interfacing safely with a lighting console can be done (for timing purposes only) but I generally see that as an unnecessary link in the chain.

 

[lighttechie5948]

By that logic one could argue that the installation of sets (battery powered screw guns, electric saws), vacuuming of carpets (Oh, the vacuum plugs in too?) and wardrobe (Steamers, irons, sewing machines...) are all really part of electrics job. But if one did argue that, they would probably be doing so on their local 1 exam where such things are apparently worth debating. It seems like a stretch to put the tub under the domain of electrics, but by the same token it's a stretch to put it anywhere else. It's the same amount of crew regardless of what you want to call them, at the end of the day.

Our professor has one story of being on tour and being responsible for planning power for wardrobe to have backstage since the green room was too far and wig & makeup needed all of their equipment in little gondolas backstage. So as the PE he was responsible for getting them 20 amps here, 20 amps there, etc.

And yes, the PE isn't going to be in charge of pyro or even greatly involved with the fire, etc. But is going to be involved in a great deal getting them the power they need.

 

[RonHebbard]

I'm having a conversation yesterday with a good buddy who's a Local One broadway head prop-person. He's describing some of the stuff needed for an upcoming (and not named here) show that he's head on.

Seems there's a functional tub, complete with hot water, etc... so needs a hot water heater, Ph checked, etc... and that according to Broadway rules, it fall's under the responsibility of the electrics department, not props. Something about because the tub gets a hot water heater, which requires electricity, it's electrics, where as if it got plumbing to the building hot water system (which is never done apparently) it would be props.

Odd Broadway rule that I thought I'd share.

O.K. This thread's reading like an invitation for an old IA division of departmental responsibilities joke relating to a chicken on stage:
When the excrement's in the chciken, it's Props, a live animal on stage.
When the excrement's in the air, it's Carps as it's flying.
When the excrement hits the deck, it's Electrics akin to most water on stage like spilled water from a dry ice fog drum.

Season's Best!
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[lwinters630]

Back to the OP, he basically has a hot tub system, which has specific power needs. Who else would be qualified.

 

[SteveB]

I suspect that the prop shopper will get the tub, the props crew will get it on and off stage, with an electrician making connections, water and power.

I just laugh as typically you don't want electricians near water. Bad things happen in my experiences of owning a home and attempting plumbing fixes.

 

[jstandfast]

If you chase this back to the dawn of time, by which I mean the gaslight era; you'll find that since that time the lighting folks have been responsible for water because they were already adept at "plumbing" ( gas pipes
don't you know ), valves and such. Further and continuing proof how tough it can be to change........