# Underwater Lighting

#### Van

##### CBMod
CB Mods
I passed on some links and info to the LD, who's thinking about LED fixtures.

Quick question I just thought of though; for those of you who have done this before (or those who haven't), would you recommend slightly cloudy-ing the water so that it carries the color better, or is there no way to do this without it looking weird?
I think you'll find that even "clean Tap Water" will give you great dispertion of color. If you want to add a touch of "blueing" to the water you could, but your costumer might hate you.

#### BillESC

##### Well-Known Member
You could coil one or more lengths of Duralight in the bottom of the fountain as long as both ends are out of the water. It is available in colors, operates on 115v, is dimmable and totally waterproof (except for the ends.)

#### STEVETERRY

##### Well-Known Member
You could coil one or more lengths of Duralight in the bottom of the fountain as long as both ends are out of the water. It is available in colors, operates on 115v, is dimmable and totally waterproof (except for the ends.)

As long as you had a GFCI on the circuit, right?

ST

Fight Leukemia

#### Van

##### CBMod
CB Mods
Yes.
I wonder if it would be possible to seal the connections using a marine epoxy??
I would default to a marine-grade splice connector. most electrical supply houses will have them.

Fight Leukemia

#### Van

##### CBMod
CB Mods
And that is a problem.

A listing of a GFCI under UL943, if it will be a non-linear load like a phase control dimmer, requires peak current measurement. You can't just plug a dimmer into a GFCI outlet and have it be safe.

Let's remember that we are talking about life safety here, not "Let's get the show on the road".

ST
Hey I have a question, as long as we're discussing GFCI's. When shooting the dive sequences for "Men of Honor" we had a huge GFCI transformer thingy < that's a techincal term> and we had all the gear that was on the dock plugged into it. My question, which just occured to me while reading Steves last response, is, Would that GFCI done any good at all since we were using a lot of HMIs on the dock. A lot of the gear was just straight 110 or 220 but those HMIs were, obviously, run through transformers. Could a gfci protect a circuit with a transformer on it ? That is if the lamp went into the water, would it trip the gfci since it's on the other side of a transfomer.
Hey I just plugged 'em in on that gig.

#### STEVETERRY

##### Well-Known Member
Hey I have a question, as long as we're discussing GFCI's. When shooting the dive sequences for "Men of Honor" we had a huge GFCI transformer thingy < that's a techincal term> and we had all the gear that was on the dock plugged into it. My question, which just occured to me while reading Steves last response, is, Would that GFCI done any good at all since we were using a lot of HMIs on the dock. A lot of the gear was just straight 110 or 220 but those HMIs were, obviously, run through transformers. Could a gfci protect a circuit with a transformer on it ? That is if the lamp went into the water, would it trip the gfci since it's on the other side of a transfomer.
Hey I just plugged 'em in on that gig.
If both sides of the transformer secondary floated above ground, the GFCI would not help.

However, do not assume that an HMI ballast is configured that way. Some may be, but not all.

ST

#### STEVETERRY

##### Well-Known Member
I would default to a marine-grade splice connector. most electrical supply houses will have them.

I guess the question would be: "How lucky do you feel?"

When it comes to 120V and water and people, I don't feel lucky at all. Moreover, the person in the water will not either.

I would never install a submersible 120V system without GFCI protection.

Remember: milliamps through the right part of your body is all it takes.

I suggest that others follow this approach, or get a good attorney.

If you want to read the details, pick up IEC Standard 479-1, "Effects of current on human beings and livestock". It's a page-turner.

Another very good book is "Overcurrents and Undercurrents--All About GFCI's and AFCI's". You can get it from:

Reptec
8 Brandon Ln.
Mystic, CT 06355
Phone and FAX - 860-536-4496
email - [email protected]

Cost is $22.00 plus$ 3.00 S&H.

ST

#### STEVETERRY

##### Well-Known Member
I would default to a marine-grade splice connector. most electrical supply houses will have them.

I guess the question would be: "How lucky do you feel?"

When it comes to 120V and water and people, I don't feel lucky at all. Moreover, the person in the water will not either.

I would never install a submersible 120V system without GFCI protection.

Remember: milliamps through the right part of your body is all it takes.

I suggest that others follow this approach, or get a good attorney.

If you want to read the details, pick up IEC Standard 479-1, "Effects of current on human beings and livestock". It's a page-turner.

Another very good book is "Overcurrents and Undercurrents--All About GFCI's and AFCI's". You can get it from:

Reptec
8 Brandon Ln.
Mystic, CT 06355
Phone and FAX - 860-536-4496
email - [email protected]

Cost is $22.00 plus$ 3.00 S&H.

ST

#### Van

##### CBMod
CB Mods
I guess the question would be: "How lucky do you feel?"

When it comes to 120V and water and people, I don't feel lucky at all. Moreover, the person in the water will not either.

I would never install a submersible 120V system without GFCI protection.

Remember: milliamps through the right part of your body is all it takes.

I suggest that others follow this approach, or get a good attorney.

............................................ST

I quiet Agree. I wouldn't use a 120v system anywhere near water without either a GFCI or a IPS dimmer attached to it. I thought the question was just a straight, " How do I put it together?"

#### STEVETERRY

##### Well-Known Member
I quiet Agree. I wouldn't use a 120v system anywhere near water without either a GFCI or a IPS dimmer attached to it. I thought the question was just a straight, " How do I put it together?"
Why would an IPS dimmer obviate the need for a GFCI?

ST

#### Van

##### CBMod
CB Mods
One of the advantages of the IPS dimmer system is it's ability to detect a short. When originally going for the UL listing ET had to jump though a series of hoops since the individual sticks and dimmers were not breaker-ed. After extensive testing they were able to demonstrate to the ppowers that be that a IPS dimmer can react faster that a GFCI, or breaker ever could. We used tell clients that you could, essentially, stick your tounge on a cable plugged into a IPS dimmer and it would shut down before any damage was possible to your body. No, I never tried it. No I won't try it either, but it remains a beautiful characteristic of the IGBT.

#### STEVETERRY

##### Well-Known Member
One of the advantages of the IPS dimmer system is it's ability to detect a short. When originally going for the UL listing ET had to jump though a series of hoops since the individual sticks and dimmers were not breaker-ed. After extensive testing they were able to demonstrate to the ppowers that be that a IPS dimmer can react faster that a GFCI, or breaker ever could. We used tell clients that you could, essentially, stick your tounge on a cable plugged into a IPS dimmer and it would shut down before any damage was possible to your body. No, I never tried it. No I won't try it either, but it remains a beautiful characteristic of the IGBT.

I'm sorry, but this has absolutely nothing to do with the life safety issues of putting a dimmed branch circuit into a submersible application. The short-circuit threshold of an IPS dimmer is many thousands of times the current required to cause fatal shock. A 6 mA GFCI is still required by Code if the voltage of the circuit is over 15VAC.