Use Multiple Subs From Different Pages at Once?

[dmerk]

Hello all!

I'm new here (I just discovered this place - it's awesome!), and I'm hoping to get some help from you guys! Sorry it's a little wordy, I'm just really stuck and want to give as much detail as I can! (I tried searching too, but I wasn't too sure where to look).

I'm using an ETC 48/96 console, and I'm attempting to run 4 Mac250 Entours on it in addition to the theatre's house hang. I've done this before without a problem, however this time I am not able to patch them into channels that have faders assigned to them (theatre policy that I can't alter their hang or their patch on our contract, stinks). So, I have assigned all the attributes to submasters, with each fixture exclusively in a submaster page (ie. fixture 1 is exclusively in subpage 1, where in that page the 2nd sub is the dimmer, 3rd is colour, 10th is tilt etc).

The problem I'm having is that I thought that I could be running subs from different subpages (ie. running the 2nd sub from subpages 1,2,3 & 4 to have all my intensities at full at once, so that I can go back and then do colour, and then gobos, and then position etc; in order to program cues). I hope that makes a little sense... it even confuses me! At the moment, when I put up a sub in say submaster page 1 and then switch to submaster page 2 and go to set that one, it clears what I had before, and then I can't "stack" things like i'd like to to make my look for a cue. The reason the fixtures attributes aren't grouped (like colour etc) is becayse I want to be able to have different looks at the same time (like colours, position etc).

Is what I'm trying to do impossible? Or what is a better way to do this? Would putting a dwell time of "hold" on the subs allow them to stay up as I set subs from other subpages? Patching them into ch.1thru96 isn't an option, so I'm limited to subs and groups, unless there is more I don't know about!

Any help please? I wasted all of today trying to get this to work, and our tech time is precious!

Thanks!!

 

[sclausenETC]

Hi there -

What you're trying to do is not possible on the Express console, sorry to say. The 24 sub fields are 'fixed' and when you page new content into them, the old content is removed, so you cannot pile pages onto each other like you're doing. I would search this forum for programming movers on Expression/Express consoles, as I know there's a thread covering this with lots of recommendations from those who have done this before, Additionally, I recommend taking a look at this document.

Since you can't change the existing patch, you would probably be better off treating the fixtures as fixtures and using the moving light controls in the software.

I hope this helps!

Thanks -

Sarah

Sarah Clausen
Controls Product Manager
ETC, Inc.

 

[doctrjohn]

Is there any reason why you can not save their show file to a disk then load your own file, patched the way you would like, for your run in their space? Once your run is complete you can just re-load their file on your way out the door.

Even if the above is an option, however, I would still strongly second Sarah's excellent suggestions...

Best,
John

 

[jglodeklights]

I agree. Your best bet is probably to back up their patch/settings to multiple diskettes (and confirm at least one of them via Expression Off-Line), and enter your own. Other than that, you'll need to do it the slightly annoying way of going into the Moving Light control panel and selecting manually and using the trackpad or manual value entering.

Depending on the wording of the contract, as long as you leave with the patch not altered when you leave, it should be fine. You have the contract to look at, though; I don't.

 

[dmerk]

Wow, you guys are quick!

Thank you so much for the replies, lots of useful info! I'm going to check out our contract today and see if I can save their patch to diskettes, and if so that may the way out. I'm also going to see about finding a personality for the 250 Entour to be able to use the moving light features of the console. I've always just sucked it up and done it manually without using a personality when I haven't had a moving light console, but I think this is the time to start using those features.

Thanks for that manual Sarah!! I've saved it onto my laptop to be able to do this right today.

Hopefully setting that up is as easy as it seems!

 

[SteveB]

Before you dump the console "Rep" file, take jglodeklights post to heart. Save the existing console show file to a floppy, import it into Expression Off-Line, ascertain that the show in Expression Off-Line is the same as in the console. Once you are certain you have a backup, backup 2 more times to 2 more floppies, THEN and only then, dump the console and start new.

 

[jglodeklights]

If you are unable to find a profile (anyone here got one?) you'll need to make it yourself in Expression offline. One is available, so try to find it on your own first, if it isn't already loaded into the board. If it isn't, the loading or creation will require a floppy drive.

Learning how to create profiles is a useful skill for any programmer, mitigated now if using smarter boards like the ION and EOS, but still essential when the profile ends up being incorrect (as was/maybe is the case using Apollo MXR scrollers with an ETC Element).

The way to do it should be in the manual for the Expression offline, but I'm going to refresh my own memory by creating the profile for myself (and I will be glad to share my experience further with you if you need additional help)

 

[dmerk]

Thanks again guys!

I checked the contract, can't clear the patches even if they're backed up. What's up with that I don't know, but I sorta get it at the same time.

I've looked into finding a personality, and I'm not having much luck. Is there like a "library" on CB with this kind of stuff available? jglodeklights if you have one, I'd happily try it out!

Also, I had to start the programming of cues today with the movers just as values old-school style. If I was to stop using them, build my show with conventional's, and then add them in later, would the cues already built with the movers be affected if I was able to find/make a personality for the macs and use that personality to program them when I add them in later?

I can't express how glad I am I found this site! Don't know why I agreed to use movers on this console, it's eating up all my time!

 

[mstaylor]

Sounds like they got burned by somebody assuring them to return it to preshow patch and then didn't. This may be compounded by them not having a qualified person to do it for them.

 

[jglodeklights]

The personalities are all readily available on ETC's website for download http://www.etcconnect.com/product.overview.aspx?ID=20325

Since you've already started programming, it might not make sense to patch them again as fixtures, unless you patched them in consecutive channels with exactly the correct locations for different parameters on the unit that the personality will assign to channels in fixture patch. If you didn't patch it 100% in line with the personality you could end up with your intensity channel turning into your gobo indexing channel, etc.