USED CONSOLE PRICING

DJ EZ-C

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If a console had a wholesale price of $7900 new and is being sold by a production company two years later in excellent condition, with the Mfg's warranty expired, with a 60 day warranty from the seller, what is a fair number to pay for that console?
 

jaightaylor

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Feb 21, 2009
It depends on what it is. You're confusing price for value. Different consoles depreciate at different rates, so there isn't just a flat rate you can apply and be done with it.
 

DJ EZ-C

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It depends on what it is. You're confusing price for value. Different consoles depreciate at different rates, so there isn't just a flat rate you can apply and be done with it.
DOT2 Core, wholesale price is Slightly less than $7900, which is what I would expect a production house would have paid for it 2 years ago. Now 2 years later what is it worth? It is in excellent condition.
 

Amiers

Renting to Corporate One Fixture at a Time.
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If I were a Retail Production house I would list it at 15k. But like it has been said there is no formula to it.
 

DJ EZ-C

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If I were a Retail Production house I would list it at 15k. But like it has been said there is no formula to it.
Retail pricing is $12,800, MAP is $8295, Wholesale (Cost for the production house) is actually $7796, so how could you list one that is two years old and has an expired warranty for $15,000? That does not make sense, so please explain your logic. Why would anybody buy something two years old for $15k, that they can buy brand new for $12.8K? This is NOT a full size MA, Nor MA Light or MA Ultra Light. This is for the MA Dot2 Core.
 

jaightaylor

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Feb 21, 2009
Discussing pricing details, even two years old, on a public forum is considered poor form.
 
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JD

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Depends what happened in the last two years! ;)
(always has to be a reason a seller is selling something.)
 

Amiers

Renting to Corporate One Fixture at a Time.
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If you know the numbers then why are you asking?? I shot out a number there is no logic behind it other than you said it was almost brand new so I marked it up 100% and rounded down to a whole number.
 
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RonHebbard

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It depends on what it is. You're confusing price for value. Different consoles depreciate at different rates, so there isn't just a flat rate you can apply and be done with it.
Do you mean you'd pay less for a used Scrimmer than for a used Leprecon?
Edit: To correct the spelling of Leprecon.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.
 
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DJ EZ-C

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Discussing pricing details, even two years old, on a public forum is considered poor form.
If you don't ask the question how are you supposed to get the answer? I tried to get an answer without being too specific and got nothing useful back as an answer.

So I got specific in an attempt to your rather vague answer of " It depends on what it is. You're confusing price for value. Different consoles depreciate at different rates, so there isn't just a flat rate you can apply and be done with it." If that wasn't asking for more specifics I don't know what is.
 

DJ EZ-C

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Discussing pricing details, even two years old, on a public forum is considered poor form.
If you don't ask the question how are you supposed to get the answer? I tried to get an answer without being too specific and got nothing useful back as an answer. So I got specific in When purchasing moving heads as an example after two years of use I would expect those items have depreciated by 50%
Depends what happened in the last two years! ;)
(always has to be a reason a seller is selling something.)
Its going for 8600 retail. 2 years old... no real warranty.... 4k-5k? Selling used stuff is tough right now. http://www.solarisnetwork.com/search_results.php?sq=Dot2

Thank you for your input. We have talked and I value your opinion.
 

DJ EZ-C

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Depends what happened in the last two years! ;)
(always has to be a reason a seller is selling something.)

The unit is in excellent condition. I have inspected it personally. Other than fingerprints on the touch screens it looks fresh out of the box. It was one of two purchased for rentals and saw very little demand. The factory warranty is expired. It has never required repairs, verified by checking the serial number with the factory and distributor. The seller will provide some level of warranty, probably a few months.

A) What is it worth now or conversely B) How much would it have depreciated from it's original purchase price (25%, 40%, more)?
 

TheaterEd

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Do you mean you'd pay less for a used Scrimmer than for a used Leprecaun?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.
Lol, this comment is so old I had to use google to understand it. Well played sir.

A) What is it worth now or conversely B) How much would it have depreciated from it's original purchase price (25%, 40%, more)?
A: as with any used gear, it is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. I'm always surprised with how much people are asking for used consoles. They generally don't depreciate much due to the fact that most people seem to hang onto their old boards as backups so by the time they hit the market they are either two generations behind or have seen so many miles of road use that you're rolling the dice.

Based on a cursory search of the product, I would want to see from current users if they are experiencing buyer's remorse by not just going to the XL-F or XL-B right away and needing to buy the additional wings. Other than that, at two years old, there really isn't much of a used market for the item yet.

I personally would look at it this way: If I would need an additional wing for my usage, then subtract the cost of the wing from the new price and that's around what I'd pay. It's like a free upgrade just without a warranty. If this console fits your needs as is, then I'd be willing to pay a bit more, but not too much.

Again: this is totally hypothetical for me, but that is my line of reasoning, flawed though it may be.

Definitely take the time to kick around their forum for a bit. http://forum.ma-dot2.com/
 

MNicolai

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If you don't ask the question how are you supposed to get the answer? I tried to get an answer without being too specific and got nothing useful back as an answer.
He's talking about dealer cost. MAP and Retail are considered public pricing, but dealer cost is confidential. Not that it doesn't get discussed from time to time, but shouldn't be brought up in a public forum. It's irrelevant to this conversation though. What it costs a dealer to purchase the equipment is an irrelevant number for a customer. The time, labor, overhead, warranty, and technical support staff required for having a business with dealerships and representing a product line that requires deep technical knowledge means that anyone who sells any product has to charge good money for what they sell. You generally shouldn't pay more than MAP unless you're working with a dealer who goes long and far out of their way to support you, but you should never hold it against a dealer when they buy a product for $5000 and sell it to you for $6000. This is all to say that just because the dealer paid $xxxx for it doesn't mean you should feel entitled to pay less than that.

Having some hours on the console and no warranty certainly depreciates the value below MAP. Consoles in general don't depreciate much until they are made obsolete. They're taken pretty good care of. Until they become teenagers the hardware stays in pretty good condition. The advent of consoles being built at least somewhat on stock PC hardware also means if the power supply, hard drive, or motherboard blows up, usually the console is still salvageable without a huge amount of expense.

There was a stretch of time where you could still get $6k for a used 15 year-old ETC Express console because people loved them so much. Then Element hit the market and the price tanked. You could give the console away but that was about it. Anyone willing to spend $3k on a used, crusty old console was willing to scrape together another $1500 for something brand new. Thus, the used market for Express consoles imploded and most people found more value in having a back-up console sitting in a closet than selling off their Express for $500.

If MAP actually is what you say it is, $8295, somewhere in the $5000 +/- $500 is what I would expect to spend on a 2 year old, almost brand new console, technically relevant, without warranty. More if it comes with a road case, external monitors, cables, nodes, etc.

That's what I would expect off of the bat. As for how saturated the market is with these things, how many people want to buy them, and how many people are trying to get rid of them, that will shift prices up or down accordingly.

In that same vein, if you can pick up an Element 40/250 for $4500 new, then it stands to reason that you would pay a bit more than that for a superior, 4096-channel console with a few hours on it.
 
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DJ EZ-C

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Jul 6, 2016
Location
New York
He's talking about dealer cost. MAP and Retail are considered public pricing, but dealer cost is confidential. Not that it doesn't get discussed from time to time, but shouldn't be brought up in a public forum. It's irrelevant to this conversation though. What it costs a dealer to purchase the equipment is an irrelevant number for a customer. The time, labor, overhead, warranty, and technical support staff required for having a business with dealerships and representing a product line that requires deep technical knowledge means that anyone who sells any product has to charge good money for what they sell. You generally shouldn't pay more than MAP unless you're working with a dealer who goes long and far out of their way to support you, but you should never hold it against a dealer when they buy a product for $5000 and sell it to you for $6000. This is all to say that just because the dealer paid $xxxx for it doesn't mean you should feel entitled to pay less than that.

Having some hours on the console and no warranty certainly depreciates the value below MAP. Consoles in general don't depreciate much until they are made obsolete. They're taken pretty good care of. Until they become teenagers the hardware stays in pretty good condition. The advent of consoles being built at least somewhat on stock PC hardware also means if the power supply, hard drive, or motherboard blows up, usually the console is still salvageable without a huge amount of expense.

There was a stretch of time where you could still get $6k for a used 15 year-old ETC Express console because people loved them so much. Then Element hit the market and the price tanked. You could give the console away but that was about it. Anyone willing to spend $3k on a used, crusty old console was willing to scrape together another $1500 for something brand new. Thus, the used market for Express consoles imploded and most people found more value in having a back-up console sitting in a closet than selling off their Express for $500.

If MAP actually is what you say it is, $8295, somewhere in the $5000 +/- $500 is what I would expect to spend on a 2 year old, almost brand new console, technically relevant, without warranty. More if it comes with a road case, external monitors, cables, nodes, etc.

That's what I would expect off of the bat. As for how saturated the market is with these things, how many people want to buy them, and how many people are trying to get rid of them, that will shift prices up or down accordingly.

In that same vein, if you can pick up an Element 40/250 for $4500 new, then it stands to reason that you would pay a bit more than that for a superior, 4096-channel console with a few hours on it.

Thank you for a well thought out and logical answer.
 

JohnD

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Ron, you were a day early with your "Leprecaun" reference . The lighting manufacturer is spelled "Leprecon".:)
Word @microstar , ya know the advice that you shouldn't thwack a hornet's nest with a stick, just take it that you have been warned. ;)
 

RonHebbard

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Location
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Word @microstar , ya know the advice that you shouldn't thwack a hornet's nest with a stick, just take it that you have been warned. ;)
I'm sorry but I'm not understanding.
BTW; During my shop days I installed a number (6 in fact) of Leprecon's 6 dimmer packs into a pair of two story set pieces slated for flip-flop touring across North America with Sunset Boulevard. (This was their attempt to scale the two story mansion down to 80% of its size and 50% of its former 40,000 pound / 20 ton weight. As I'm recalling, the version with the full size flown mansion was only mounted in Los Angeles, New York City, Toronto and Vancouver. A 20 ton fly piece is an unusually heavy load to bring into a theatre requiring very special re-design and reinforcement of a theatres grid. Feller Precision handled the grid reinforcement in all of the theatres.) I believe we sent both of the new touring sets to Denver for final fit-up when Mr. Webber became upset with how one of his then new productions, "Whistle Down The Wind" possibly, was received / reviewed in Boston and cancelled his further plans for "Sunset." I suspect "Whistle Down The Wind" ended in Boston without ever continuing on to Broadway.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.