Using halogen theatre lights for classes

[tymckz]

I have a group that wants to use our theatre lights for their classes. They would be on 3, 6, 8, 10 hours in a row at times. I'm just wondering the drawback for them to be used this way. Besides the insane electrical pull (about 80A) is it hard on the dimmer packs? Will lamps blow more quickly?
thanks

 

[JonCarter]

Power usage. (Waste? Maybe.) Look at a lamp catalog. It'll give you design lamp life for each lamp type. In my experience these numbers are a bit conservative. But any use puts hours on your lamps.

 

[Amiers]

Charge them for lamps cause they will be less hours to use when you actually need them for shows.

 

[ship]

What kid of classes, and given the lamp hours plus more than asked for, pre-figure for lamp usage/replacement? 80 amps of draw in power is another factor in price for electrical energy used. Lamps blow with usage, dimmers if maintained should not have a problem with use. Another thing to factor in with use as with general rental costs. Seems normal rental. Add in work lights, house lights, building lights etc, staff scheduling etc. etc. normal rental expenses. Cost to sweep and mop the stage etc.

What is your question about other than normal rental of the space?

 

[tymckz]

It's a scene class. I only want them to use them when there is a scene but they just turn them on at the beginning and leave them on the entire time, class breaks and all. It's bothering me. I've asked them not to do that and I need to speak with them again and just wanted to get my reasoning clear. I mean other than, 'I don't want you to do that.'

 

[brucek]

If you run them at 90% you will loose minimal lumens but gain significant lamp life. How much I cant tell you because I dont have my handy lumens/voltage/lamp life slide rule next to me. I think its something like actual lumens/RATED LUMENS = (actual voltage/RATED VOLTAGE)^3.38. and actual life/RATED LIFE = (RATED VOLTAGE/actual voltage)^13.1

 

[Amiers]

It's a scene class. I only want them to use them when there is a scene but they just turn them on at the beginning and leave them on the entire time, class breaks and all. It's bothering me. I've asked them not to do that and I need to speak with them again and just wanted to get my reasoning clear. I mean other than, 'I don't want you to do that.'

I mean they aren’t following the rules remove access to the booth or just charge them extra and when they get the bill they will stop or won’t and you will make enough money to deal with the issue.

 

[derekleffew]

If you run them at 90% you will loose minimal lumens but gain significant lamp life. How much I cant tell you because I dont have my handy lumens/voltage/lamp life slide rule next to me. I think its something like actual lumens/RATED LUMENS = (actual voltage/RATED VOLTAGE)^3.38. and actual life/RATED LIFE = (RATED VOLTAGE/actual voltage)^13.1

From the Collaborative Article https://www.controlbooth.com/threads/mathematical-formulas-for-lighting.7664/ :

lumens/LUMENS = (VOLTS/volts)^3.4

life/LIFE = (VOLTS/volts)^13 (I.e., reduce the volts to 90% and the life increases by 393%!)

EFFICIENCY/efficiency = (VOLTS/volts)^1.9

watts/WATTS = (volts/VOLTS)^1.6
(not 'squared' as you would get with a fixed resistance)

coltemp/COLTEMP = (volts/VOLTS)^0.42

1. Lamp/gel cost.
2. Manpower to relamp/regel.
3. Fixture maintenance cost, socket replacement.
4. Electrical cost.
5. HVAC cost.

 

[ship]

What's the contract, and what's a Scene class? What's the status of your work lights in them perhaps needing to use the stage lights to supplement? Eventually converting to a LED house - or over time a few at a time would allow for minimal cost in adding some stage lighting to the rehearsals or classes, as with changing to the 3K hour Ushio lamps in less worry.

 

[tymckz]

What's the contract, and what's a Scene class? What's the status of your work lights in them perhaps needing to use the stage lights to supplement? Eventually converting to a LED house - or over time a few at a time would allow for minimal cost in adding some stage lighting to the rehearsals or classes, as with changing to the 3K hour Ushio lamps in less worry.

A scene class is where the teacher teaches, gives homework such as a scene for one, two or more actors and then they perform the scene. They want lights on the students for the scene. Something in 20+ years of theatre classes, I've never had requested. The work lights are fine. We've been closed for 17 months without income so getting LED is out of the question or I'd do it yesterday. Our other theatre is all LED. Now they want to use inexperienced stage managers to operate our equipment. While I'm happy to train experienced techs on our system, I don't like the idea of folks who don't have the experience of how things work or go wrong up in the booth. They're pushing us in every corner of this rental and we need the money.

 

[JonCarter]

If your equipment is so complicated/delicate/non-obvious/easy to screw up to anyone less than a computer programmer, set things as you want them, lock the booth door and show the non-trained the power switch. "Push this way turns on, push that way turns off."

 

[ship]

I think times a changing and given the info, the classes are advancing also from the past. If lighting operators to the scene are a new thing, that's great. Get over being grumpy old man of the theater, I and all strived to achieve, and get onto what will work by way of investment in how this new way of doing things easy or cost effective to you or more rules which might loose the contract. Obviously, perhaps 3,000 hour lamps a good investment for now as with locking down in contract full lighting mode, verses work lights. If you are training light board op's to light the scene, that is way seperate in contract than just rehearsal space usage. Young lighting people will need both time at the board, and time during rehearsals to use your stage lights so as to finalize a look. This assuming a static fixture location on your part. Budding LD's would need for Rep' plot time to figure out how to design from it.

Hope it helps in what you now describe is more than rehearsal space for the talent.

Noted your Our theater is now all LED. What's the cost matter you initially presented as a problem? We are talking a few hundred Watts a few fluorescent lamps in use somewhere else in the building is the equivalent of.

 

[theatremgr]

Some questions come to mind:
Is there a standard "house plot" that remains at the end of every use? This is what you get with a stage rental.
Do not try to save lamps by running for extended time at a dimmer level below 80% as this will cause the Halogen cycle lamps to become blackened and ruined.
Does your contract require "house technicians" to operate house equipment? Rehearsal space and show are different uses of the space.

Basically there needs to be a designated responsible person from the Tenant side of the contract. This person will be present during the entire time of occupancy and be responsible for the proper use and care of the space and equipment provided by the owner of the property. While that person may delegate the duty of supervision, the responsibility remains with that person.

It sounds like the tenant wants you to hand over the keys and get out of the way. Not good for the care of the property regardless of the liability and income.

 

[ship]

A "Repertory" plot is easily searchable as with McCandless design concept, and highly recommended for a space where the lights don't move a lot other than "specials" and for rental spaces where in general coverage of lighting is provided. No sorry, no concept of a generalized design for "Rep" plot - you would need to hire a lighting designer to create this look and set of cuses, as every space to light is different.


Halogen cycle works to about 9% with a dimmer curve properly corrected for that warming cycle. Just a problem over the last year perhaps with that concept in seemingly bringing lamps up to full after a really long time at it's least voltage.

Anywhere I have worked, required at least a TD if not more people on-site on-staff able to help, teach and supervise anything that was going on in the house... and say no when necessary. I used to do this as per staff at a Rep' house in the 90's as a job. Makes sense doesn't it? Someone at least intimately familiar with the theater to find an outlet or data connection? Someone on-site ensuring they don't overload or over rig a pipe or rigging point? It
's not just about over using the lighting or having keys to doors... that TD and possibly person on site is paid for in contract and is working to ensure what is done in your theater is correct and safe. And helps cleen duck poop off stage after the ducks are accounted for at even a small level of theater supplied Management/labor need for such a place.

 

[MRW Lights]

A scene class is where the teacher teaches, gives homework such as a scene for one, two or more actors and then they perform the scene. They want lights on the students for the scene. Something in 20+ years of theatre classes, I've never had requested. The work lights are fine. We've been closed for 17 months without income so getting LED is out of the question or I'd do it yesterday. Our other theatre is all LED. Now they want to use inexperienced stage managers to operate our equipment. While I'm happy to train experienced techs on our system, I don't like the idea of folks who don't have the experience of how things work or go wrong up in the booth. They're pushing us in every corner of this rental and we need the money.

Sorry to go off on a tangent here... but after seeing your posts through the last several days as an educator and someone in academic support staff I'm going to ask a completely different question.....

With all due respect... your last several posts have had complaints about your job and the people you work with specifically students, but there's a tone of passion and professionalism behind it that I fear has become jaded and sour. My question is, are you doing alright? These last 18 months have been absolutely killer on the business of the industry, but what a lot of folks outside of our bubble haven't realized is the toll on the people. Would you have approached this the same way in 2019? Is there opportunity for a student intern to work with the class so that you have a trained technician to help them? This is a community of support and camaraderie and you're a part of that as are your students and facility. Let's help them so in turn they help you.

 

[Chase P.]

Do they make a 400amp, 3phase twist timer?

More realistically, it should be easy enough to setup the cue they access to automatically time out after an hour (or whatever)? You could even tie it to the architectural control buttons, if you’re blessed enough to have them.

Re-activating (and respecting) the lights is good practice for actors that will inevitably be asked to interact with tech in the future.