Using Lasers The Right Way

Amishplumber

Active Member
Hi internet,

I have a friend who is very fond of buying equipment on Ebay. He owns (2) 40mw green lasers and a 1w blue laser and uses them on gigs fairly often. Having spent enough time on this forum and the internet in general, its become pretty clear to me that these aren't exactly legal to use in the US. Problem is all the info I've found has been chocked full of academic advice about the various variances needed, and really lacking on how exactly to get these variances.

So, say I wanted to use these lasers on my own gig and wanted to do so legally; what would I have to do? And most importantly, what phone numbers do I call, what emails do I send and who's offices do I harass?

Thanks!
 
Hey,

To operate your laser legally, you will need to contact the FDA for a variance, and you will need to submit a Laser Light Show Report as well. The variance can most likely be obtained from your state-level government office. Here's some helpful information:

Laser Show Safety

If you are to be using lasers outside, you may also need FAA clearance pertaining to the specific night(s) they are to be used.
 
I have been disheartened to see the trend on Youtube for instructions (and Ebay for parts) on building multi-watt lasers, some as high as 30 watts. The people doing these things are less than professional (think Beavis and Butthead.) I cannot help by think we are headed for a major problem of incident.

The result of those kind of things is usually an over-reaction or even a complete ban. Be very careful about crossing T's and dotting I's on anything to do with lasers as I suspect if someone out there does something stupid, we are going to see a witch hunt with everyone (even the professionals) getting painted with the same brush.
 
You should also contact the Fire Marshal in the city or town that you are going to do the event. Any local variances should be handled through their offices, and they should know who to contact to acquire proper licenses/variances. If you do not know anything about lasers, laser operation and laser safety I wouldn't suggest using them. Lasers are DANGEROUS, hence the need for variances and generally a visit from the local Fire Marshal to view the set up, have see a demo of the operation, and check to make sure the operator has the proper licensing and INSURANCE. One wrong flash of a laser to an eye...

Lasers are Legal to use in the US (for the most part), but they are REGULATED. And for good reason. It is not like renting some cheap LED PARs... Edit: found this with a quick google search: www.[B]mass[/B].gov/eohhs/docs/dph/regs/105cmr121.rtf
 
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Here's the problem, those are ILLEGAL lasers, variance or not, they are illegal. They are not designed in a way that is safe. If you buy lasers you have to buy ones that have met certain standards, then apply for a variance. You might want to look into lasers from X-LASER.
 
Lasers are Legal to use in the US (for the most part), but they are REGULATED. And for good reason. It is not like renting some cheap LED PARs...

That is incorrect. Any laser over 4.9mw (yes, milliwatts) is illegal in the United States. Professionals can obtain a variance from the FDA to be able to use higher powered lasers under certain conditions, however the lasers must meet very strict standards.
 
Here's the problem, those are ILLEGAL lasers, variance or not, they are illegal. They are not designed in a way that is safe. If you buy lasers you have to buy ones that have met certain standards, then apply for a variance. You might want to look into lasers from X-LASER.

This is true. We bought a 5w RGB laser from a private US manufacturer and had to send it to X-Laser for inspection and any modifications necessary before it could be eligible for a variance. Essentially, they just made sure it was up to their spec and named it a "Custom 5w RGB". Chinese lasers may or may not fare so well, and I'm not sure how much X-Laser charged us for their services, but I'd bet that you'd be better off selling the laser and buying a known brand. We also own a few from their "Skywriter" series.

They are a great company, though expensive, but with that price comes a legal product with great support. They always answer their phone (or return calls promptly), and the person on the line is always a pro. X-Laser also has a lot of resources such as the Ez-Variance Kit, but it is only available for X-Laser products.
 
It's worth mentioning just why lasers are so dangerous-
With a near 0 degree beam width, there is no drop-off of the heat in the beam. Should the laser become stationary due to a motor modulator or other error, they can quickly set fire to something.
AND, that is not the worst part! Should an stationary beam end up directly (or by reflection) in someone's eye, damage can occur in milliseconds, basically destroying the cones and rods in the retina.
Outdoor shows present another hazard touched on above- the potential of hitting a flight path.

Many safety systems must be employed to insure the beam is doused should the show go off plan. This is why they want to look at the "show" as compared to just the laser head.
 
That is incorrect. Any laser over 4.9mw (yes, milliwatts) is illegal in the United States. Professionals can obtain a variance from the FDA to be able to use higher powered lasers under certain conditions, however the lasers must meet very strict standards.

You do realize we are saying the same thing here...
 
Okay,

So to try and summarize the above: In order to get a variance I should try and find a state level official in my area? Also these particular lasers are probably not built to appropriate specs for use in the USA and I will most likely not be able to obtain a variance for them?

Also I would need to obtain a variance for every public use of these lasers? There is no way to get a blanket variance for general use?
 
You don't necessarily have to go to an office to get your variance. You can contact the FDA by phone or e-mail and get it taken care of. This is the most common way of doing it. There is a lot of paperwork involved, and a lot of forms that have to go back and forth, so it can be a lengthy process.

The variance covers the laser (or however many lasers are on the variance), not the show. As such, the variance can be good for several years. The Laser Light Show Report is what has to be done prior to every show. Essentially, the document describes the proposed location, positioning, safety measures, crowd control measures, etc. The variance is for any use of a high-powered laser (greater than 4.9mW), public or private - a lot like a driver's license except it only covers the [-]car[/-] laser(s) listed on your variance.

The Chinese lasers may give you trouble when it comes to the variance, but I can't say for sure. The best thing would be to call the FDA office. Back to car analogies, I imagine it would be like getting a car insured that you assembled yourself -- might be pretty difficult or impossible.

Here is an example of a form that you'd expect to need to fill out:
(PDF warning)

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/AboutFDA/ReportsManualsForms/Forms/UCM080788.pdf

I would also highly recommend becoming a Laser Safety Officer (LSO). It may be required in your area. I believe many manufacturers can help with this.

Here's some more good reading regarding safety:
(Another PDF warning)

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/MedicalDevices/.../UCM119257.pdf

Last but not least, here are some good basic safety tips from Pangolin, which is a laser show control company. Interestingly, this page is from another company and I couldn't find it on the Pangolin site. Pangolin does have a good site though, and they also have a forum which might prove helpful.
 
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Okay,

So to try and summarize the above: In order to get a variance I should try and find a state level official in my area? Also these particular lasers are probably not built to appropriate specs for use in the USA and I will most likely not be able to obtain a variance for them?

Also I would need to obtain a variance for every public use of these lasers? There is no way to get a blanket variance for general use?

Use of lasers is not EVER to be taken lightly (no pun intended). If you wish to incorporate lasers into a temporary show design it is easier to just rent, even though it is expensive. Getting everything you need in order to use lasers is not made easy because of the dangers inherent in their use. It is not supposed to be convenient. If you are serious about incorporating lasers into your designs, either on a temporary or permanent basis then learning how to jump through the government hoops, Federal, State and Local, is just part of the gig and go the whole route to make it part of your design procedures. Otherwise, just rent from a reputable and INSURED laser vendor. You should not do this on the easy and cheap.
 
For our company to be allowed to operate our high powered lasers, one of our technicians (our manager specifically) Had to attend a class covering the operational safety and legal requirements of the device before our company would be "Certified" to use them. They went over the basics in the class as well as positioning requirements and where to aim these powerful suckers. After that, he came back and trained the rest of us on the proper use and safety of the equipment. The class is provided by the company from which you buy the laser (Which is why you should get a good one IMO), which is required by US Law. Some states have different rules (New York for ex requires a NY Licensed Op), but you don't need a fire marshall for a laser specifically (by US Law anyways, maybe depending on state). Here in Ga, we took our class and then we went off into the wild with our bright and shiny new toy! Hope I've helped a little
 
There was an article in the last few years on a laser used for a rave in Eastern Europe where the lasers were aimed at a white tent. The reflection apparently came back at the partygoers, and the next day a handful of people had very damaged vision. I spoke with a laser guy last week at a show and he said another issue with lasers is that when improperly used, they can destroy the optics in a camera (much less pose a threat to the camera op). Lasers tend to yield high returns when used for shows, but the safety and liability factor is tremendous, so take it one step at a time.
 
Lasers will destroy cameras and projectors. They go through the focusing lenses and destroy the optics chips. The effect is much worse on a DLP Camera / Projector. Always cover your cameras and projectors prior to and during focusing. Reflection is always a risk, but it's one of the chances you take in the business. It's best to have insurance and be aware of your risk factors

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