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Using the right lamp

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by TupeloTechie, Oct 1, 2007.

  1. TupeloTechie

    TupeloTechie Active Member

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    In the PAC at my school we have an inventory of Altman Shakespeare and Star-pars (Source 4 and Source 4 par rip-offs.) The Shakespeare is rated to 750w, and the star-par to 575w according to the manufacturers specifications.

    The janitor that is in charge of buying lamps, only buys one kind, a OSRAM 1000w FEL, and puts these in both instruments.

    I am needing any help I can find to figure out a way to get this changed, the only thing I have now is that the lamps burn out get instantly, and it is a fire hazard. Not to mention that these are left on 8 hours a day, and half of the drops are not fire-resistant due to ignorant and non safe people.

    I talked to the janitor today and he said that the "bulbs" were the right ones and that they don't have the money to buy any other kind.
     
  2. Footer

    Footer Senior Team Senior Team Premium Member

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    Take a fixture apart and look how the reflector is cracked and flaking. These lamps are destroying the lights, thats all there is to it. Especially the pars, its doing horrible things to them. In the lekos its burning out shutters and whatever else you put in front of the lamp. Also, running the 1k lamps is out of code. The bases are more likely to overheat and start a fire.
     
  3. JD

    JD Well-Known Member

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    "The janitor that is in charge of buying lamps" ... That kind of says it all!

    I would say to focus on the Safety issue as that is the most likely to get higher-ups to consider voicing their opinion. It is also the most important! I am surprised that you are not having lamps explode as the fixture was designed with a heat limit based on a 575 lamp, and are running for long durations. Speaks well of the fixture's over design at least. Can't imagine what his reasoning is (if any), but maybe he gets a deal on them, or maybe he likes to keep his inventory simple. Get the specs from the web so you have some paper to fall back on if you end up in a discussion with staff other then the light-bulb janitor!
     
  4. TupeloTechie

    TupeloTechie Active Member

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    yes, our school district pays him to only be in charge of one building, most of the time he is playing video games or surfing the web in his office. He knows nothing about the building. Eveytime he touches the sound board he screws something up, he fried my friends i-pod by sticking it in a phantom power input.

    I believe he has a deal that he can get the lamps for around $6.50 a piece, and because they fit in the socket he believes them to be the right ones. Also he replaced the whole plot with theses bulbs once last year and I asked him if he bench focused any of the ERSs and he didn't know what I was talking about.
     
  5. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    While it is true that the FEL is a fairly inexpensive lamp, there are alternatives out there that aren't that much more expensive and will burn longer in your fixtures. There is many a thread on CB dealing with alternatives to the FEL. For your Shakespeares you might suggest the HX-755 which is a long life 750w lamp, they are a few dollars more than the FEL but have a much longer burn life. For the 575w variety there are many choices, so you migh want to just search it here or do your own research.
     
  6. Les

    Les Well-Known Member

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    I would be hesitant to call Shakespeare's and Star Pars "Source Four knock-off's". They may not be as good or as widely used, but they've been around long enough to deserve some respect IMO. Now ADJ and Behringer; that's another story...
     
  7. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods

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    Sorry to continue the hijack, but I agree. I've used Shakespeares several times, both fixed and zoom, and I like them. I actually like the large handles on the shutters more than those on the S4. Altman still makes quality products.
     
  8. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

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    Got to agree with the idea of getting the specs from the website and taking them in with you. Do some research and find a good price on a safe alternative lamp as well. Then go over his head to someone who you think understands that safety is more important than saving a couple of bucks. If that gets you nowhere and you feel it's more important to be safe than have friends call the fire marshal and report him.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2007
  9. jmabray

    jmabray Active Member

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    Shakespeares have been around a while. Star-pars on the other hand are a complete knock-off of the Source 4 par.
     
  10. Les

    Les Well-Known Member

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    Ah, I was wondering about that!
     
  11. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

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    So do you have a statute of limitations on being a knock-off? The Shakespeare was just as much of a knock-off when it came out as the Star-par is now. The only original thought that went into either product was how can we reverse-engineer this and undercut ETC's price?
     
  12. Les

    Les Well-Known Member

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    I would classify a knock-off as an instrument designed to look like a higher end fixture (source four par is to opti-par) but with cheaply manufactured parts and very inferior performance. I agree that source four beats shakespeare (and star par) but the star par beats the ADJ opti, and all it's counterparts. The only huge complaint I have on the shakes is the fact that it's easy to pull a shutter out on accident during a focus session. Never worked with a star par, they don't look too appealing though. I think I see it as more of a competition. One company's way of staying caught up and in the game. I guess in that case the Strand SL is also a knock off. (I don't like the SL line very much, except for their zooms). I believe that if the Shakespeare was considerably cheaper in price than the source four, they would be more widely accepted as a middle ground between the older and newer generation of ellipsoidals. Better than 360Q, worse than S4. But unfortunately, the Altman costs more than the ETC at most dealers.

    In short (and because my sentence structure is terrible), I see a knock off as an aesthetic look-alike, but not a real piece of pro gear.
     
  13. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Might contact someone from Altman with your statements from the head janitor (Maintinence engineer) and print up what their reply is in citing the UL listing of the lighting fixtures as specified for use with a specified wattage which is important to keep due to liability thus school insurance, wear on the fixtures issues and in general optical issues with the FEL lamp. Take such a reply to the janitor when it comes from the factory for the fixtures he is buying lamps for as proof. This in addition to perhaps some of my more choice comments about the barbaric use of the FEL lamp and it being obsolete.

    After this, if no change for a more efficient lamp... sell him on the 1.2Kw Ushio upgraded version of the FEL. Puts the FEL to shame and if you are going to melt down stuff and cost more money, you might as well do it in a spectacular highest possible output type of way. FEL lamps.. ain't nothing no more, just old school barbaric lamps without further use. This unless you have FEL/R lamps... now there is a efficient lamp that's worth using for choice applications.

    The GE/Thorn HX-755 is a GLE ANSI code lamp now just as the HX-603 under other brands is a GLA now available thru most brands. Both types 750w/115v and 575w/115v are optimum choices in balancing 5x the lamp life with more refined filaments and good output.
     
  14. jmabray

    jmabray Active Member

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    I don't really believe that Shakespeare's were a reverse engineering job on the Source 4. Neither were the Strand SL's. Both of those manufacturer's have a long history of making their own product. Were they prompted to make a product by the release of the Source 4? Probably. But they didn't go out and blatantly steal the optics for their fixtures.

    Opti-Par, Star-Par, etc I consider those a knock-off because the optics, and the idea were pretty much stolen right from the source 4 par. They didn't do anything different or make it their own design in any noticeable way.

    Again, My .02. Keep the change.....
     
  15. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    "The opinion's expressed here are mine, all mine. You can share them if you like, but they don't necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer or any manufacturer my employer may represent."

    My sentiments exactally. Well phraised.
     
  16. TupeloTechie

    TupeloTechie Active Member

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    well, Altman doesn't seem very concerned... got this is a response e-mail

    "Please go on the website www.altmanlighting.com. The data sheet states
    that this fixture is only UL rated for up to 750W."

    :rolleyes:
     
  17. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    sometimes they are not the best in being other than gee - look at the obvious. At other times they will get into further detail. Typically I don't allow such an easy answer out of them thus get a bit more to work with.

    Still print up what they recommend looking at, their answer on this question and inquire with the lamp buyer, if not print up these pages in our thoughts.

    Perhaps this person is innocent or thinking himself innovative under a misconception. Perhaps doing the well established trade route or thinking he is saving money for the school. Gotta at least initially assume that his intent is benevolent or innocent in intent. In which case your tact is to help and educate.

    After and if this is proved to be otherwise, than you take on other tacts to correct the error. That's what I would try.
     

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