Very cheap, basic lighting

[Rgshakespeare]

I'm working with a small theatre company that performs in nonconventional venues (art galleries, yoga studios, etc) and they finally have enough money to invest in VERY basic lighting (probably no more than 5 instruments).

I've done a lot of design in school but beyond instruments/accessories know very little about general set-up equipment.

On a very tight budget of around $500, what all do I need? Any advice is fantastic.

 

[JD]

Might be a little too tight. Remember, one Source Four is $300+
There are some simple packages like this - http://www.allprosound.com/catalog/productdetails~fprodid~2445~item~APS-Brand-SYSTEM-ED-4800.htm
but I would say you are better off saving up a bit and going with a simple LED fixture system (2 to 4 LED washes, a controller and a couple of stands. )
You can get in real cheap with this kind of package- http://www.allprosound.com/catalog/productdetails~fprodid~12624~item~APS-Brand-SYSTEM-LED-64.htm
but good LED fixtures usually start around $300 each and can run well over $2,000 each for units suitable for theater use.

 

[RickR]

Have a deep conversation about priorities.

• building for the future
• least cash today
• fit the venue of the day
• ?

You probably are renting now. Maybe buy some used gear that can be merged with the rental. Old stock from the rental house?
Also look at hardware store "work" lights, very cheap and all they do is throw light.

 

[gafferstudent]

It's definitely not an ideal situation, but as JD suggested you could put together a very cheap system with some PARs, shoebox dimmers, folding trees, and a cheap controller.
For example:
4 X http://www.bulbamerica.com/par46-black.html ($88)
4 X http://www.bulbamerica.com/silver-200w-120v-par46-3mfl-par-can-bulb.html ($41)
http://www.bulbamerica.com/4-channel-dmx-dimmer-pack.html ($80)
2 X http://www.bulbamerica.com/silver-9-ft-pro-tripod-with-t-bar-support-stand.html ($66)
http://www.bulbamerica.com/optima-lighting-master-mind-96a-dmx-512-controller.html ($30)
And you've got a rough system of 4 fixtures for $305. You'd want to budget a lot for DMX cable, power cables, and shipping, but it's a possible system to start with.

 

[techieman33]

Might be a little too tight. Remember, one Source Four is $300+
There are some simple packages like this - http://www.allprosound.com/catalog/productdetails~fprodid~2445~item~APS-Brand-SYSTEM-ED-4800.htm
but I would say you are better off saving up a bit and going with a simple LED fixture system (2 to 4 LED washes, a controller and a couple of stands. )
You can get in real cheap with this kind of package- http://www.allprosound.com/catalog/productdetails~fprodid~12624~item~APS-Brand-SYSTEM-LED-64.htm
but good LED fixtures usually start around $300 each and can run well over $2,000 each for units suitable for theater use.

I would avoid both of those systems, they are way overpriced.

 

[Rgshakespeare]

This is the sort of company that considers themselves "minimalistic" and almost prefers the industrial, warehouse look. So the more work lights and less money, I think the better. I don't think they ever plan on investing in source fours.

Gafferstudent, that is exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for. Do you guys know of any cheap consoles with the ability to record cues?

 

[BillESC]

A consideration when you "perform in nonconventional venues" is power and its availability. Therefore I'd suggest a few LED cans or strips, tripods and simple programmable controller. $ 500 can get you a nice compact system that can be added to as time goes on.

 

[gafferstudent]

The cheap controller I linked there looks like it has the ability to record scenes. I doubt it would have much transition ability (fade timing, fades at all, the like) but it would work for at least recording something.

I would say that having at least one dimmer pack around will be helpful. Incandescent lights are cheap and plentiful, plus having the ability of a practical (like a lamp in the set) controllable at the board is always ideal. However I would agree with the others that keeping an eye on LEDs is wise. You could gamble on some cheap LED lights, ones like http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CWYONFU/?tag=controlbooth-20 are very versatile and easy to work with. Assuming they work.

 

[carproelsofly]

How about using a laptop for control?

http://www.controlbooth.com/threads/lighting-control-with-a-laptop.23352/

 

[Rgshakespeare]

So here's a question. I think power might be a little scarce. If my circuit breaker permits it, could I wire up multiple shoebox dimmers to a board?

 

[n1ist]

Shoebox dimmers have both a DMX in and DMX out. Just connect the out from one to the in on the next one, and put a terminator on the out of the last one in the chain. Set each for a different start address (ie, the first one has channels 1-4, the second 5-8, etc.) and you are ready to go.

Pay attention to the power ratings of the dimmers; many are 600W/channel BUT 1200W max, so you couldn't run 4 575W lamps there unless you are sure that you will never turn more than two at once.
/mike

 

[RickR]

So here's a question. I think power might be a little scarce. If my circuit breaker permits it, could I wire up multiple shoebox dimmers to a board?

Household plugs are only rated to 1800W even if they are on 20A breakers. You will see some box dimmers with 2 plugs to get a few more watts from a receptacle.

Better to find outlets on different breakers for each dimmer box. And check your extension cords for heating, if it feels warm to the touch then you are overloading the cord.

 

[yaybo]

Household plugs are only rated to 1800W even if they are on 20A breakers. You will see some box dimmers with 2 plugs to get a few more watts from a receptacle.

Better to find outlets on different breakers for each dimmer box. And check your extension cords for heating, if it feels warm to the touch then you are overloading the cord.

There are two main types of "household" receptacles that we come across regularly: 15A is rated at 1800 watts and 20A at 2400 watts, however each circuit is derated by 20% so a 15A circuit will only hold 1800 watts (15A) for a short period of time. Continuously it will carry 1,440 watts (12A), a 20 amp circuit will carry 2400 watts (20A) for a short period and 1,920 watts (16A) continuously. Of course as with everything there are contingencies that effect these formulas. They include but are not limited to temperature, age and condition of wire, age and condition breaker, condition of connections between all of the afore mentioned devices.


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[Dionysus]

Household plugs are only rated to 1800W even if they are on 20A breakers. You will see some box dimmers with 2 plugs to get a few more watts from a receptacle.

Better to find outlets on different breakers for each dimmer box. And check your extension cords for heating, if it feels warm to the touch then you are overloading the cord.

Yes normal 15A outlets are rated for 1800W and are NOT supposed to be hooked up to 20A breakers. There are also 20A "T-Slot" receptacles (now a standard code item in Canada in kitchens) which are rated to 20A (non continuous).

Either way I'd suggest each shoebox dimmer be put on its own circuit, and all the better to have them on a 20A circuit.

You can sometimes pick up old used lights for free or way cheap if you know where to look or have good timing. One theatre I work with gave away a bunch of perfectly good (very old) fixtures a couple years ago to another group who was very happy to have them.

I've done a lot of shows back in the day with nothing but some old hand-me-down lights and some shoebox dimmers with some portable lighting trees. I've done shows with a lighting budget of the cost of a couple sheets of gel and a case of beer back when I was in highschool (knew where to borrow lights and dimmers with no cost).

 

[JChenault]

Yes normal 15A outlets are rated for 1800W and are NOT supposed to be hooked up to 20A breakers. There are also 20A "T-Slot" receptacles (now a standard code item in Canada in kitchens) which are rated to 20A (non continuous).

this is not my understanding of code in (at least) most of the USA. Indeed the standard practice is a 20 amp breaker driving a number of 15 amp receptacles.

 

[Jay Ashworth]

If you wire a 15A receptacle onto a 20A breaker with the expected 14AWG wire, you've overfused the run and it's out of code.

If you wire it with 12AWG... maybe.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

20 amp breakers and 12 ga wire with is common and permitted as long as there is more than one device with on receptacle so a single duplex is OK, though some jurisdictions won't allow a single duplex. If you have a single outlet for a fridge or dishwasher for instance on a 20 amp circuit, it must be a 5-20r. The terminals on all 15 amp receptacle devices are rated 20 amps for pass through.

PS: stage lighting is rarely a continuous load so the derating to 80% is rarely applicable.

 

[Dionysus]

this is not my understanding of code in (at least) most of the USA. Indeed the standard practice is a 20 amp breaker driving a number of 15 amp receptacles.

First a disclaimer that I am an electrician, and have wired hundreds of houses and commercial buildings.

Here that is illegal as the devices (receptacles) are only rated for 15a, and your overcurrent protection is not sufficient. Now 5-20r as bill stated or "t-slot" receptacles can be used as a 15a circuit (ie, plug in things that you would normally plug into a 15a circuit like your waffle iron or toaster) but the receptacle is rated for 20a, along with the 12awg wire that supplies it.
It is SOP in commercial buildings to have a minimum wire size of 12awg, yet if 5-15 receptacles are on that circuit, it must have 15 amp overcurrent protection. If you use 5-20r's you can then use a 20 amp breaker (unless you have to up wire size to 10awg for one of a few reasons).

The idea of in housing of using the 5-20r on a 20 amp breaker is to have one or two receptacles on the same circuit with GFCI protection in your kitchen. The "old" way of doing kitchen receptacles is to use a 5-15r and "split" it, so you have two circuits at one or two duplex receptacles (each duplex has the same two circuits). The problem is that you can't use a GFCI and have a split duplex, so it is now SOP to use 20a circuits in the kitchen. Personally I don't do splits at all any more, just 20a circuits. Some electricians only use 20's for GFCIs and use 15a splits for the rest. There are now more code rules in Canada about receptacles in the kitchen than any other place in a building.
You need a receptacle for so many feet of counter space, you need receptacles on either side of a sink if there is at least a foot of counter on the other side of the sink, you need to have one on the island (two if the island is so big or has a sink not on the edge).

Anyways back to the OP. Yes I'd use 5-20r receptacles as my source if available. if not 15 amp circuits are fine, but some shoebox dimmers are capable of going over 15a.

 

[n1ist]

Per NEC (barring any local amendments), it is ok to have more than one (and a duplex counts as two) 5-15R on a 20a circuit if fed by 12AWG or larger wire. See 210.21(B)(3). As for kitchens, I don't see any issues with using more than one split receptacle (you would need at least 2 to meet the above section since each circuit is only using one half...) as long as they are GFCI protected, either with GFI breakers connected with handle ties, or with separate GFIs as the first outlet and the rest downstream of it. I seem to remember that the rules are different in Canada about split receptacles.

/mike

 

[Dionysus]

Per NEC (barring any local amendments), it is ok to have more than one (and a duplex counts as two) 5-15R on a 20a circuit if fed by 12AWG or larger wire. See 210.21(B)(3). As for kitchens, I don't see any issues with using more than one split receptacle (you would need at least 2 to meet the above section since each circuit is only using one half...) as long as they are GFCI protected, either with GFI breakers connected with handle ties, or with separate GFIs as the first outlet and the rest downstream of it. I seem to remember that the rules are different in Canada about split receptacles.

/mike

This indeed is the problem as you would need to use a very expensive 2-pole 15-amp GFCI breaker. Then if the GFCI tripped you'd have to go to the panel to reset it. GFCI breakers are much more expensive than GFCI receptacles in any case. It is cheaper and easier to use a t-slot GFCI, which can feed another t-slot receptacle.
With split duplex receptacles you must have both poles tied together. With some panel makes there are no ties to connect two GFCIs (depends on the make/model) for example Federal-pioneer Stab-lok breakers, where the "test" button is beside the handle.