VGA over Ethernet

[techietim]

Hi guys!

Just bought some little adaptors for VGA over Ethernet (can return if they're rubbish!)

I've been told by the seller that I must use a CCC (Copper) Ethernet cable for it to work as CCA (Copper Clad Aluminium) will not work well at all.

The run will be a 50m cable (probably Cat6, maybe Cat5e) - not wall installed.

Can anyone advise on the results I would get from a CCA cable and whether a CCC cable is necessary.

Thanks in advance!

 

[venuetech]

what make/model?
I have had a Gefen VGA extender for a number of years now and have been happy with it. but I would term it as a "VGA over Cat5" device as it is not plugged into a network switch.

 

[Edrick]

All CCA should be burned in a toxic mess. No reputable manufacturer is going to sell you that. It almost never even meets actual spec

 

[techietim]

what make/model?
I have had a Gefen VGA extender for a number of years now and have been happy with it. but I would term it as a "VGA over Cat5" device as it is not plugged into a network switch.

These are what I've bought: http://bit.ly/1grAZTT

 

[techietim]

All CCA should be burned in a toxic mess. No reputable manufacturer is going to sell you that. It almost never even meets actual spec

So avoid a CCA cable then?

 

[techietim]

Also what do you expect as an average price for these cables?

50m seemed to get very expensive (and difficult to find).

 

[venuetech]

it's worth a try. other passive adapters that i have found recommend solid copper conductors. stranded conductors (patch cable) may not give you the best results.

 

[museav]

These are what I've bought: http://bit.ly/1grAZTT

Those look like VGA over UTP/CAT rather than VGA over Ethernet, in other words it is simply transmitting VGA using CAT cable and not converrting VGA to data to run over a data network.

Ironically, for VGA or RGBHV signals you may find that CAT5 cable is better than CAT5e or CAT6 as the lower twist rates of the pairs associated with CAT5 results in less skew between the R, G and B signalls. Usually not a factor in shorter runs but for long runs it may be something to consider since I doubt those converters feature skew compensation.

 

[venuetech]

Also what do you expect as an average price for these cables?

50m seemed to get very expensive (and difficult to find).

in pre-made form yes but if you just get some bulk cable and crimp your own ends onto it it wont be to bad cost wise. (a good excuse to buy more tools)

 

[Chris15]

Call me cynical, but I wouldn't be putting much faith in those adapters.
Given the price, the only thing they can be is a direct connector changer.

This means that your unbalanced video lines which are designed to be run on coax are now running on twisted pair. Great when you use transformers to balance the lines, not so great when you run them unbalanced.

I also wonder what they are doing in that little real estate and that little cost to multiplex the sync lines...

 

[museav]

I'm not sure what they're doing internally but I did note that they seem to be referencing "VGA" literally, as in the 120' maximum distance quoted is for 640x480 resolution and not just referencing the HD15 connectors. At 1280x1024 it's apparently down to 55'.

 

[JohnHartman]

Ummm, wow best of luck with those. I have $500 a box units for cat5 interfacing and I have issues with them at times. You are likely to have major skew issues unless you run skew free cable, even then I would be surprised if they work for that kind of distance.

 

[aldenf]

These units are mostly rubbish. Return them. They do not convert the analog VGA signals to digital for transmission over CAT5/5e/6 cable. They're simply connection adapters, passing the analog signal over the Ethernet cable... The text states clearly VGA (640x480) "up to 50m" over Cat6 STP (shielded twisted pairs). Usable VGA (analog) cable length varies by the resolution you're pushing. Anything over 80 feet @ 1024x768 is unreliable... Practically any Cat6 cable you purchase will be ccc (copper core). 500 feet (152m?) of Cat6 STP runs about $80 here in the States at Home Depot. Buy some cable and crimp the connectors yourself... You can buy a 50m VGA cable for approximately $80 US. A VGA signal booster will most likely be necessary @ $30-50; good for 200 feet or so... Good luck!

 

[museav]

These units are mostly rubbish. Return them. They do not convert the analog VGA signals to digital for transmission over CAT5/5e/6 cable. They're simply connection adapters, passing the analog signal over the Ethernet cable...

All passive 'baluns' usually simply adapt the physical wiring to twisted pairs, that is not limited to just this product. And even high quality powered VGA-to-UTP interfaces do not usually convert the video signal to digital, they just adapt to running balanced signals on the twisted pairs and perhaps apply some amplification, skew compensation, reclocking, etc. to the analog signals.

Usable VGA (analog) cable length varies by the resolution you're pushing. Anything over 80 feet @ 1024x768 is unreliable...

You can often run analog 'VGA' signals longer distances by using bundled 5 wire coax cable with an HD15-to-5 BNC adapter cable like http://www.extron.com/product/product.aspx?id=syvgamrgbhvfwpb&subtype=61&s=4 or http://www.extron.com/product/product.aspx?id=syvgargbhvf&subtype=61&s=4 at one or both ends.

 

[aldenf]

All passive 'baluns' usually simply adapt the physical wiring to twisted pairs, that is not limited to just this product. And even high quality powered VGA-to-UTP interfaces do not usually convert the video signal to digital, they just adapt to running balanced signals on the twisted pairs and perhaps apply some amplification, skew compensation, reclocking, etc. to the analog signals.


You can often run analog 'VGA' signals longer distances by using bundled 5 wire coax cable with an HD15-to-5 BNC adapter cable like http://www.extron.com/product/product.aspx?id=syvgamrgbhvfwpb&subtype=61&s=4 or http://www.extron.com/product/product.aspx?id=syvgargbhvf&subtype=61&s=4 at one or both ends.

Agreed completely, Brad. But all this seems to be rather expensive, bulky, heavy and headache-causing when solid Ethernet protocol line extenders are selling for $250-$400. These line extenders are limited only by the 100m Ethernet protocol. I've had two installed in the playhouse for over a year without a single problem. For portable/rental usage, they might have more negatives. But for install, I wouldn't recommend anything but true digital line extenders. It's seems to be a no-brainer, especially for HDMI.

 

[Chris15]

I think the key difference between decent passive baluns and these cheap adapters is the unbalanced to balanced to unbalanced conversions that are taking place.
It's the same as trying to run unbalanced audio long distances and being surprised when it's noisy, this is exactly the same...

As to running it on digital extenders, I don't see the logic in converting VGA, an analog signal, into digital, to send it down a cable to convert it back to analog to connect to a projector or LCD that's going to digitise it anyway.

So either keep the signal analog and run it with real baluns and UTP/STP (low skew cable is your friend here - say Belden NanoSkew) or cut over to digital and run it using HDBaseT and standard data grade UTP/STP...

My opinions only, take them or leave them...

 

[museav]

Agreed completely, Brad. But all this seems to be rather expensive, bulky, heavy and headache-causing when solid Ethernet protocol line extenders are selling for $250-$400. These line extenders are limited only by the 100m Ethernet protocol. I've had two installed in the playhouse for over a year without a single problem. For portable/rental usage, they might have more negatives. But for install, I wouldn't recommend anything but true digital line extenders. It's seems to be a no-brainer, especially for HDMI.

It can also depend on the situation. For example, in some school, higher ed and corporate applications the minute "Ethernet" is involved that means it is no longer AV and the IT department, designer and contractor get involved. Just one "Ethernet" device connected to another can mean a wall plate at the first device, a wall plate at the second device and any wiring and configuration in between those having to be handled by a totally different group of paties. In those situations that may be more additional effort and complexity than it is worth.