Vinyl printed drop with scenery netting

[freedomverse]

We are considering ordering a vinyl matte finish printed drop. We are thinking vinyl instead of muslin because of the cost savings. Here is the catch. We are wanting to attach scenery netting in place of the sky so that we can use the cyc as the sky and light it to get the desired moods. We want to hang this drop from a batten from this netting. This is what it will look like. It is 16' tall and 36' wide.



I have several questions.

• will this work? Is there a better way?
• having never used vinyl before how does it behave? Does it curl? Does it need a lot of stretching?
• can scenery netting be attached to vinyl? Will it be strong enough to safely support the drop?
• any recommendations on what method can I use to hang this?

 

[freedomverse]

Anybody have any input on this? I need to button this down this week. I would totally appreciate any help I can get.

 

[derekleffew]

Pure speculation and guesses...

I'd be worried about printing on vinyl, afraid that it would come out shiny, like a vinyl sign. Even if they say matte, is there any texture at all? Every vinyl banner I've seen has a sort of corrugated look to it, which is fine when front lit, but might not work when scraping light up from the bottom.
You'd need the correct type of adhesive to glue the netting the the back of the drop, probably sandwiching the net between two pieces of vinyl, or between vinyl and muslin scraps.

How far US of the drop is the cyc? I'm guessing you'll light the top of the cyc from above (cyclight s, MR16 Mini-Strip s, or LED batten s) and the bottom of the drop from below (MR16 Mini-Strip s, or LED batten s). Have to be careful that the spill from one set doesn't contaminate the other.

As for hanging, I think standard 1/2" polypropylene netting (similar to [URL='http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002E8EZI4"]this[/URL] maybe? I believe that's what I used to use years ago for a cut and net drop) would be strong enough, with webbing, probably a double layer again sandwiching the netting sewn and glued, and grommet s and tieline s just like any other drop.

If the drop is built with a pipe pocket, a 36' run of 1/2" galvanized bottom pipe will add ~100 lbs. So factor that in.

Good luck. Can't wait to see the final pictures in situ.
.

 

[techieman33]

My fear would be that it would strech, and that it would be very hard to get the wrinkles out from folding.

 

[jglodeklights]

36' wide is pretty expansive, and that may be quite a bit of work to properly get the netting attached without causing waves. One other possibility would be to order the drop with the sky as empty space or a low saturation neutral blue, and to subsequently backpaint the main scenery on the drop so that the sky area can be backlit. The disadvantage is that if you are front and backlighting at the same time you will likely wipe out the effects of the backlighting. The advantage is everything is in the same plane visually then and you needn't worry about blow by from what is lighting the drop onto the cyc creating weird shadow lines.

 

[freedomverse]

Pure speculation and guesses...

I'd be worried about printing on vinyl, afraid that it would come out shiny, like a vinyl sign. Even if they say matte, is there any texture at all? Every vinyl banner I've seen has a sort of corrugated look to it, which is fine when front lit, but might not work when scraping light up from the bottom.
You'd need the correct type of adhesive to glue the netting the the back of the drop, probably sandwiching the net between two pieces of vinyl, or between vinyl and muslin scraps.

How far US of the drop is the cyc? I'm guessing you'll light the top of the cyc from above (cyclight s, MR16 Mini-Strip s, or LED batten s) and the bottom of the drop from below (MR16 Mini-Strip s, or LED batten s). Have to be careful that the spill from one set doesn't contaminate the other.

As for hanging, I think standard 1/2" polypropylene netting (similar to [URL='http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002E8EZI4"]this[/URL] maybe?) would be strong enough, with webbing, probably a double layer again sandwiching the netting sewn and glued, and grommets and tieline s just like any other drop.

If the drop is built with a pipe pocket, a 36' run of 1/2" galvanized bottom pipe will add ~100 lbs. So factor that in.

Good luck. Can't wait to see the final pictures in situ.
.

We are picking up a sample this morning from the printer so we will see how shiny their matte finish is.

The cyc is about 8 feet behind this drop. The cyc will be lit with standard cyclights. I am not certain how we plan to light this drop but it does sound tricky now that you mention it.

The netting you linked to is exactly what we were thinking of using; the attachment method is also what we had in mind. Do you think that it will hang nicely without wrinkles with a pipe pocket situation? Do you think it will need any additional stretching from the sides?

 

[freedomverse]

My fear would be that it would strech, and that it would be very hard to get the wrinkles out from folding.

This is very true. They told us the best way to keep it nice is to never fold it. Looks like we will have a nice 16' roll to lug around.

 

[avkid]

Looks like we will have a nice 16' roll to lug around.

You're touring with this?

 

[kicknargel]

I would be pretty hesitant about vinyl, in terms of shininess, weight, and getting it to hang well. Muslin has the advantage of being able to wet it and let the wrinkles size out a bit. I'd see if the printer can offer any other materials, like poly poplin, which is what a lot of fabric banners are printed on. (It may have to be printed with dye sublimation, which is a different process and may be more expensive.)

I just don't think, especially hanging from the netting, that you're going to get this to hang well.

 

[wdugger]

Sounds like you've gotten a lot of great ideas here already. I would add to keep in mind that when you put two different fabric types together, at least one of them tends to hate life. I would think that the scrim would tear at the poly webbing because of the weight below from the vinyl. Of course, you may have this issue with other fabrics as well. Good luck! Can't wait to see your finished product.

 

[freedomverse]

What a couple of days this has been! We have gotten excited about and thrown out so many ideas and ways of doing this that my head is spinning. First of all, thanks for all of your ideas. They really helped us think this project through.

We finally thought we landed on the idea of printing the backdrop with a taller sky on a semi translucent fabric (a little thicker than a standard poly poplin) and then back-paint everything but the sky like jglodeklights recommended to get the glowing sky effect when backlit. Netting and it's possible problems would be avoided altogether. When we got the price back from the printer we all fainted and decided to go with the most matte vinyl sample that we had found.

This particular matte vinyl is not shiny at all compared with other vinyl sample we had seen. It seems use an ink that is more matte? Of course any fabric is even more matte and more desirable but too pricy for us.

My next problem to solve is how to fly this thing. We are still wanting to cut the sky out and are thinking of hanging it from whatever kind of horizon shaped framing I can come up with. It would be attached to the frame at the top and the bottom would have a pipe pocket with a 1/2" or 3/4" pipe. On one hand I am glad the netting is history. On the other hand I have this new challenge to overcome. I guess that is why this is so fun. Ideas anyone?

By the way, we are doing the same thing with this:

 

[freedomverse]

I have two ideas for these drops and am looking for a critique to help me know what to do. My first idea is to create a kind of framing that will support the top. there would be a horizontal bottom rail so that the rigging can be attached to it. There would be stifferners and the luan would be reinforced all along the top edge so there is a place to pull the top of the vinyl around and attach it. I drew it over the picture since it is hard to explain. This could possibly be done in a Hollywood style flat type design as well.



A second idea a friend of mine had is to construct the shape out of 3/4" plywood. It would come down about 1 1/2 feet and follow the horizon line. It would need to be stiffened somehow.

I'm not in love with either idea. I wish I had more time to plan this. I only have two weeks until we fly these!

 

[kicknargel]

I think you're on the right track. No sense in 3/4" plywood--it would still have to be framed, so you might as well save the money and weight and build a fairly standard profile flat, as sketched.

I'm sure you're aware, but now you're in the world of flying hard scenery, so proper and professional practices are needed in terms of construction and rigging techniques. You'll need good construction, with glue, screws, and bolts, rated hardware supporting the weight from the bottom framing member and a rated keeper at the top. You'll need to calculate the weight and select (non-hardware/big box) hardware with an appropriate design factor. Keeping the whole thing stiff along its horizontal axis will also take consideration. At what spacing are the pick points?

 

[freedomverse]

The pick points are about 4' apart. For hardware am thinking of bolting on the shackle plates that BMI sells for the bottom and their keeper plates for the top.

Stiffening could be achieved with 1x boards and loose pin hinges.... that's my plan so far.

One thing that I was concerned about with the plywood idea is that the set would lean/tip forward... I think it would be less of a concern with a more standard flat construction. What do you think?

Also, would building the framing using a Hollywood style construction give any benefit?

 

[kicknargel]

I think you're on a good path. I'd stick with Broadway-style flats--they are stronger for purposes of flying.

You're always going to get a little bit of forward tip because you can't get the rig point right in the center of gravity. The taller your flats, the less pronounced it will be.

 

[SHARYNF]

I use these backdrops all the time for venue decorating
They are printed with an ink jet printed and glued together with a horizontal seam. It is a sort of matte (I call it shower curtain material) comes in roll

Some things to consider, it cannot get wet, the paint runs and turns into a mess, they tend to come to you folded up, and the folds tend to wear off the "ink" Typically the edge does not have any salvage (on the cut side so it tends to keep pulling off. we used them a lot for quick deals, but went back to painted . the problem was getting a high enought resolution image at least 3k to not have a lot of jaggies

ou might be able to mount them on a flat, making sure you don't get the painted sided wet (probably use some spray 3m adhesive. Definitely you could NOT IMO cut it out and then use net. the white vinyl os somewhat transparent so you can get SOME light effect from the back . The biggest I have worked with is 20 wide 10 high. that means a horizontal seam but it is not all that noticable. Getting them flat can be a challenge so that your lighting does not show the folds. I tend to use them hung from portable Photo Backdrop screen stands with clamps onthe top but it is more for room decoration than a stage piece. ON stage I use those Clips and hang then every 3 feet or so. Flexible Muslin Holders Clamps Clip for Green Screen Studio Backdrop Stand 50351 | eBay and Easy Klips Easyklip MIDI 50 Black | eBay

sharyn