Eboy87
Well-Known Member
I did a show back at my high school a few weeks ago, running sound, and ran into a problem I forgot about. We have a nice space, but I would like to slap whoever installed the sound (as is the case at most places). Our board is a RAMSA SR2444, no graphics (there's some hidden, hard-wired EQ modules, but they can only be programmed by computer), running through Renkus-Heinz crossovers (I believe the x12, x14, etc ones, if not them then the predacessors), on to Crown Com-Tech amps, then onto the speakers.
The amps are in a room in the back of the house we unaffectionatly call the crap room, while our main cluster hangs over the apron, about 5 feet too close together, and consist of what I believe is a dual 18" sub (which we just got working right before I left), and what I think is a 2" horn/15" trap; one cluster SL, one SR. Which brings me onto the problem.
When we do shows that require a band, we usually don't use the pit, instead, we leave the pit covered for more real estate on stage, and tuck the band far SR, to the point that half are playing in the wings while the other half is on stage. The problem with this is that when they get into it, all that volume is projected right into the house. I should probably mention the acoustics are really good, to the point we don't use mics for our normal productions (musical excluded, as well as renters), the actors projecting is enough to fill a 375 cap room.
Now, when we add in mics to get above the band, we run into problems. I can't coax enough oomph out of the system to cut it. And before you ask, yes, I'm sure there isn't bleed coming through the open mics from the band; that was the first thing I checked. When I was in there last, I ran some sine waves through the system, and for esses and gees, ran the board into the red considerably. The volume wasn't bad at all (though 1k sines are painful to me anyway), and when I went back to check the amps, all the LED's on them and the x-overs showed somewhere around -20dbu (keep in mind the board is running around +10dbu).
My first thought was that the board had the switch that switches the output from -10db to +4db, but this board doesn't have any. I hooked in my drive rack in-line from the board to where ever it ties in with the rest of the system, and saw it was getting around the output of the board (not exact, but I don't trust the meters on the board). My second thought was that there was some kind of limiting built-in to the system, or that the signal was attenuated some where. Went back to the amp rack and checked their gain controls. All were cranked to 11, and no limiters on the amps were engaged (if so equipped). My third thought was that the cable runs were hampering the signal, but dismissed that after checking meters.
So that led me back to thought number two. I know there's some built-in EQ in the system. I bet there's a signal attenuator somewhere there too, but I haven't found it. It does make sense though, since my high school was (is) the jock school, I could see someone not wanting drivers blown. But for the professional shows, we just don't have the volume to get over the band, and it's frustrating. SOP for me is to run the board into the last yellow bar constantly to even hear the singer.
Lately I've been taking my own drive rack to EQ the mains and mons (I can't believe there's no graphics for the mons). I've thought about using my DRPA (don't laugh) as the x-over and run from the board, to the DR, straight to the amps, but these shows use just about every mic cable we have (keep in mind, this place wasn't built with mics in mind), and all mine are tied up just patching in the EQs, so I don't have enough to make the run from FOH to amp land. I havn't been able to hear any compression, and it sure is hell ain't a brick-wall limiter (I'd be able to hear that), so it has to be a built-in attenuator somewhere (or really, really shoddy wiring). This is a pain in the arse to track down the cause, and I really need that volume. There's a show in there next month that'll have a full band, and I need all the volume I can get (industrious dummer).
Fully realizing that I'm the only one here who knows what exactly is going on in our venue, does my excessively long post hit the nail on the head? Am I sorry out of luck? Or does this seem like something gone horribly awry.
That's gotta be the longest post I've ever done Mark another first...
(I like parenthetical remarks)
The amps are in a room in the back of the house we unaffectionatly call the crap room, while our main cluster hangs over the apron, about 5 feet too close together, and consist of what I believe is a dual 18" sub (which we just got working right before I left), and what I think is a 2" horn/15" trap; one cluster SL, one SR. Which brings me onto the problem.
When we do shows that require a band, we usually don't use the pit, instead, we leave the pit covered for more real estate on stage, and tuck the band far SR, to the point that half are playing in the wings while the other half is on stage. The problem with this is that when they get into it, all that volume is projected right into the house. I should probably mention the acoustics are really good, to the point we don't use mics for our normal productions (musical excluded, as well as renters), the actors projecting is enough to fill a 375 cap room.
Now, when we add in mics to get above the band, we run into problems. I can't coax enough oomph out of the system to cut it. And before you ask, yes, I'm sure there isn't bleed coming through the open mics from the band; that was the first thing I checked. When I was in there last, I ran some sine waves through the system, and for esses and gees, ran the board into the red considerably. The volume wasn't bad at all (though 1k sines are painful to me anyway), and when I went back to check the amps, all the LED's on them and the x-overs showed somewhere around -20dbu (keep in mind the board is running around +10dbu).
My first thought was that the board had the switch that switches the output from -10db to +4db, but this board doesn't have any. I hooked in my drive rack in-line from the board to where ever it ties in with the rest of the system, and saw it was getting around the output of the board (not exact, but I don't trust the meters on the board). My second thought was that there was some kind of limiting built-in to the system, or that the signal was attenuated some where. Went back to the amp rack and checked their gain controls. All were cranked to 11, and no limiters on the amps were engaged (if so equipped). My third thought was that the cable runs were hampering the signal, but dismissed that after checking meters.
So that led me back to thought number two. I know there's some built-in EQ in the system. I bet there's a signal attenuator somewhere there too, but I haven't found it. It does make sense though, since my high school was (is) the jock school, I could see someone not wanting drivers blown. But for the professional shows, we just don't have the volume to get over the band, and it's frustrating. SOP for me is to run the board into the last yellow bar constantly to even hear the singer.
Lately I've been taking my own drive rack to EQ the mains and mons (I can't believe there's no graphics for the mons). I've thought about using my DRPA (don't laugh) as the x-over and run from the board, to the DR, straight to the amps, but these shows use just about every mic cable we have (keep in mind, this place wasn't built with mics in mind), and all mine are tied up just patching in the EQs, so I don't have enough to make the run from FOH to amp land. I havn't been able to hear any compression, and it sure is hell ain't a brick-wall limiter (I'd be able to hear that), so it has to be a built-in attenuator somewhere (or really, really shoddy wiring). This is a pain in the arse to track down the cause, and I really need that volume. There's a show in there next month that'll have a full band, and I need all the volume I can get (industrious dummer).
Fully realizing that I'm the only one here who knows what exactly is going on in our venue, does my excessively long post hit the nail on the head? Am I sorry out of luck? Or does this seem like something gone horribly awry.
That's gotta be the longest post I've ever done Mark another first...
(I like parenthetical remarks)
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