Wanting to make a usable trash can that can burst into fake flames

darinlwebb

Active Member
I'm trying to think of ways to design a trash can prop that can have several items of clothing thrown into it, and then set on fire.

Fog/mist and LED seems like an option, or air blowing plastic flames. Realism isn't incredibly critical but would be nice. I think the 'emitter' would need to be a ring inside the opening, so clothes tossed in wouldn't risk blocking the flame.

Has anyone built their own water mist fire prop? I see a few good tutorials online, but the requirement of it being a usable trash can are complicating things.
 
some red and orange lights, a fan, and cut silk shaped like flames attached to the top of the fan
This was my initial thought too but I am not sure how to do the fan part with clothes tossed on top.
Now thinking about it a bit more if the fan was in the base of the bin and a false floor was on top of it but also inside there is another wall (like a twin walled cup) then the air could be blown up the sides to make the flames dance while still allowing the clothes to be thrown in. I like it! I also hope that it makes sense.
Regards
Geoff
 
This was my initial thought too but I am not sure how to do the fan part with clothes tossed on top.
Now thinking about it a bit more if the fan was in the base of the bin and a false floor was on top of it but also inside there is another wall (like a twin walled cup) then the air could be blown up the sides to make the flames dance while still allowing the clothes to be thrown in. I like it! I also hope that it makes sense.
Regards
Geoff
Think about the Dyson bladeless fans with a large hole in the middle and air emanating from the outer circle.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
Do you even need to see the flames? If it's a shiny steel can, what about a ring of LED tape around the inside that can be triggered for an orange/red chase? Clothes fall to bottom, effect is triggered and the can looks like there's something burning inside.
I'll definitely make this my Plan B. I'll likely want this ring of LED tape regardless of whether I'm able to create visible flames.
 
I found this video from Eric Hart (I think he is active on this site, but I don't know how to tag people.) [Edit by mod.: Just type @ and the site will try to help you with the username. @erichart ]
I haven't done an effect like this, but I wonder if you couldn't run a flexible hose with holes punched out along the top edge of the can along with your LED pixel tape, and then put the humidifier and a second smaller trash can to catch the clothes inside.
 
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I made this quick sketch. Bare minimum is LED's only. But if I can get a fan mounted in the bottom, then I can play with paper/plastic flames - or maybe go crazy with water vapor.

My biggest limitation with the water vapor design in Eric Hart's video is that I want this 100% self-contained and hidden in the trash can. He's got an excellent design for a fireplace and many other applications.
 

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I was wondering about the size of the can. If you don't have room to fit a humidifier, you may be able to do something on a smaller scale with a vape pen. I recently saw an article in one of the old USITT technical catalogs about a company that took apart and rewired a vape pen to power on using a RC4 wireless DMX unit. I found a pdf here. It does look like it might be a lot of work and wiring for a small effect like this, but there might be a simpler way to accomplish what you need that's not quite so involved as this. (Maybe just a physical switch connected to battery packs for the fan and vape coil would be simple enough. I haven't done anything like this, but they say they were able to run the vape coil off of 4.5V from three AA batteries, so you might be able to run the vape coil and a 5v fan on the same circuit.) You could probably spend a lot of time on this project, but the juice might not be worth the squeeze.

If you do physical flames I would definitely recommend buying silk fabric over paper or plastic. The silk is light and flexible enough to move freely and I don't think you'd be as successful with a different material.
 
I made this quick sketch. Bare minimum is LED's only. But if I can get a fan mounted in the bottom, then I can play with paper/plastic flames - or maybe go crazy with water vapor.

My biggest limitation with the water vapor design in Eric Hart's video is that I want this 100% self-contained and hidden in the trash can. He's got an excellent design for a fireplace and many other applications.
@darinlwebb Your "small" fan may not move enough air. Also, how does air enter to feed your fan, are there holes or slots around the lower side walls of your can???
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
I made this quick sketch. Bare minimum is LED's only. But if I can get a fan mounted in the bottom, then I can play with paper/plastic flames - or maybe go crazy with water vapor.

My biggest limitation with the water vapor design in Eric Hart's video is that I want this 100% self-contained and hidden in the trash can. He's got an excellent design for a fireplace and many other applications.
I had a good effect with crepe paper strips. See Here. This is a fire place that was created using computer fans and 3 strips of LED's running an effect. The whole lot was controlled from the lighting console (ETC ION in this instance) and is powered by a LiPo battery tucked behind. There is a 3 ch LED decoder, DMX relay for the fans and wireless DMX .
 
@darinlwebb Your "small" fan may not move enough air. Also, how does air enter to feed your fan, are there holes or slots around the lower side walls of your can???
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
I was thinking of using a wire mesh trash can, then lining it with something to make it look solid - leaving a few inches of mesh at the bottom below and around the fan.
 
You might consider a ring of computer fans around the inside perimeter of the can (with silk and LED), leaving the center open for the clothes to drop through. Also, when I've done silk flames I've always preferred to include a bit of blue light at the base of the flames for contrast.
 
I'm trying to think of ways to design a trash can prop that can have several items of clothing thrown into it, and then set on fire.

Fog/mist and LED seems like an option, or air blowing plastic flames. Realism isn't incredibly critical but would be nice. I think the 'emitter' would need to be a ring inside the opening, so clothes tossed in wouldn't risk blocking the flame.

Has anyone built their own water mist fire prop? I see a few good tutorials online, but the requirement of it being a usable trash can are complicating things.
Realistic flame effects like this are harder to pull off than most people expect. Staging the effect and associated props will go a long way to help the effects hardware pull off the gag.

If the production design allows it, beat up and age down the trash can. Cut some gashes in to the can sides so that there is a tiny amount of visibility in to the can. Inside the can, arrange your gear to be on the down stage side of the can so that the clothes fall behind the efx hardware. Locate the "flame" effect, mylar, silk, etc so that it rises up across the opening you cut in the can. Allow a very small amount of the flame tips to pass above the edge of the can rim. Let the audience minds fill in the blanks. You just need to hint the flames.

Using an ultrasonic humidifier puck can work but by it's very nature , it needs help lifting the "fog" up into view. You can take some low cost fog bricks and mount them in a water proof container. Put a lid on the container and add a small muffin fan in the lid, oriented to suck the fog up and out. Use a DMX interface to turn the fog bricks on a few seconds in advance to charge the box/plenium, then turn on the fan. A positive pressure blower is a better way to move the fog quickly if you have an old blower. Your only going to get a few seconds of fog using this approach unless you put a lot of fog bricks in the can. Lots of water for this approach.

Or, just use a small glycol based smoker if you are allowed to use it on stage. Real smoke rises and will look natural and disipate in a belivable way. Build a smoke diffuser over the fog output so it does not look like a fog geyser.

So, timing is everything. Once the clothes get tossed in, trigger a lighting event inside the can. It can be LED tape strips, LED RGB lamps or even old incandesent A lamps. You can still get red and amber A-lamps . They have really natural ramping and their color temperature for flame effects. This is assuming you have an actual incandescent dimmer! This initial light cue establishes the ignition of the fire. Probably audio support with a sound effect. Throw an old rag or piece of clothes over the rim of the can as a prop, so that the edges of the rag catches some of the initial lighting effect. Then, trigger the fogger/ smoker while flickering / ramping the internal effects lighting.

If the can is near a scenic element, see if the LD can give you some flickering support lighting on a wall or set piece, cued with you effect event. keep everything subtle. Less is more.

Good luck! It sounds like a fun special effect.
 
I'm trying to think of ways to design a trash can prop that can have several items of clothing thrown into it, and then set on fire.

Fog/mist and LED seems like an option, or air blowing plastic flames. Realism isn't incredibly critical but would be nice. I think the 'emitter' would need to be a ring inside the opening, so clothes tossed in wouldn't risk blocking the flame.

Has anyone built their own water mist fire prop? I see a few good tutorials online, but the requirement of it being a usable trash can are complicating things.
Instead of building the flame unit, you can find a hanging version (it doesn't have to hang) that you can put inside the trash can. Just search Google for "mini hanging flame light". A bunch will come up. I have one made by Visual Effects, Inc.---model # V-0106 that I used as a fake campfire for a local country singer. It worked great. I programmed it in the console and was able to dim it slowly as his show was ending so that it appeared the campfire was burning out. You'll still have to rig a place for the clothes to drop in behind it, but this might save you time.
 

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