What is a patchbay?

[CURLS]

More or less think of it as a way to rearrange your i/p's and o/p's via a bay of wires much like the way telephone operators did back in the day. Yes, you can also have a patchbay for time based and dynamic effects as well as signal routing throughout your theatre. They are also used in broadcast trucks to route audio and comms which.. ive seen and they are ridiculous sometimes taking up whole walls. The question about the brass connector i would have to say just leave it and work with cleaning the mechanical way that i stated. ADC a manufacturerelajdla however u spell it w/o being corrected by some smartass hs kid makes patchbays and they suggest not to use any cleaning solution b/c it can damage cables and make them short or just not conduct over time.
hope this answers

 

[Chris15]

I would say that good patchbays use balanced XLR connections, not 1/4".

That is not necessarily true. 1/4" connectors have many applications. You have TS connectors which are used on instrument cables and the like and mono connections. TRS connections can be used for stereo headphones and connectors on consumer equipment, for insert jacks and also, as they are in patch bays, as a balanced connector. I believe that the convention is:
Sleeve to XLR pin 1 (Ground)
Ring to XLR pin 3 (Audio Cold)
Tip to XLR pin 2 (Audio Hot)
Though having said that, the reversal of tip and ring I would not think uncommon. It really does not matter, so long as everything is the same. If things are wired with 1/4" connectors or in most patch bays scenarios, patching with phantom power energised on that channel could lead to serious problems as you are shorting out the 48V. Assuming that phantom is off, you should also be able to plug in a TS connector and it will short out say the audio cold to ground.

1/4" jacks have the advantage of being able to fit more connections onto a panel. That I imagine is one of the reasons they are used.

Patch panels have definite advantages when you have more input sockets than mixer channels. They are also useful if your wiring does not match with how you would like your mixer configured, eg. You have an input SL and it really is better grouped with inputs from SR but it there are inputs both SL and SR and it is neater to cable to SL. It is also advantageous for things like wireless mics as has been said.

 

[AVGuyAndy]

Did you really think that I didn't know what TS and TRS connections are used for, or are you just trying to sound smart?

You only listed 1 (bad) reason why a 1/4" patchbay would be better. XLR patchbays are much more robust, and easier to maintain.

 

[Chris15]

Did you really think that I didn't know what TS and TRS connections are used for, or are you just trying to sound smart?

You only listed 1 (bad) reason why a 1/4" patchbay would be better. XLR patchbays are much more robust, and easier to maintain.

No I not questioning your knowledge, just that others who are reading this may not be as aware. Absolutely XLR are more suitable but in spaces where there are lots of inputs and not that much space, they may have advantages. XLR panels are far supreme since I can take a standard mic lead and plug it straight into the panel but for reasons I cannot understand, Some of the best patch bays that exist use either 1/4" or bantam connectors. Neutrik's patch panels are like this.

1/4" does allow normalling and that more easily, with XLR as best I understand it, you would need a patch cable for every channel.

It would appear that both XLR and 1/4" panels have their advantages and both can carry a balanced signal, but given the choice, I would have to agree and go for XLR.

And XLR panels are easier to replace a faulty connector in too...

 

[mbandgeek]

All this information is all and good, but how do you connect things to them?

 

[Chris15]

All this information is all and good, but how do you connect things to them?

You might need to elaborate. What are you trying to connect?

 

[mbandgeek]

Just a few Effects processors on a single mic

 

[AVGuyAndy]

Dare I ask why you want a FEW processors on one mic? This really depends on your school's setup. Why don't you ask someone at your school how your patchbay works?

 

[CURLS]

Ok by now i have watched you repeatedly ask the same questions over and over again and to get nowhere. I think Andy would have to agree that you are wasting our time in asking us silly questions about something that can easily be researched for days on the internet if not just go to your local music/audio store and ask. If you are really going to be this openly absent minded about finding answers to your questions please quit what you are doing so you do not take an output of an amp plug it into your patchbay and connect that output to the input of your console. LOOK, i just explained it all over again to you. Have fun in this industry!

 

[Chris15]

Ok by now i have watched you repeatedly ask the same questions over and over again and to get nowhere. I think Andy would have to agree that you are wasting our time in asking us silly questions about something that can easily be researched for days on the internet if not just go to your local music/audio store and ask. If you are really going to be this openly absent minded about finding answers to your questions please quit what you are doing so you do not take an output of an amp plug it into your patchbay and connect that output to the input of your console. LOOK, i just explained it all over again to you. Have fun in this industry!

I think that you are being a bit harsh here. mbandgeek has indicated elsewhere on the site that "I admit it i am a teenager that has a lot of time and no social life whatsoever. I like being a theater technician and I am learning new stuff every day from this website, and getting points for my cluelessness in some topics." Clearly he is just trying to build up his knowledge.

It would be impossible for us to tell you how to patch into your patchbay, except to say using a cable. There are many different ways that the patchbay can be internally connected and there is no way that we can know which one of the options it is without seeing it and testing it. Is there anyone in your school who knows how it is configured? Since it is obvious that some people do not feel that you asking questions is an appropriate use of these forums, you may wish to contact me by PM, but ultimately, without being in your space we cannot tell you how to patch into the panel.

 

[AVGuyAndy]

If by harsh, you mean not bull****ting, and actually saying like it is in the real world, then sure.

And as for an innapropriate use of these forums: Lecturing people, like you have been, perhaps?

[mod]Please refrain from cursing as the Englist language provides enough other words to adequately express yourself. CB works hard to make sure that content filters have no reason to block us. Thanks much! -dvsDave[/mod]

 

[Chris15]

Obviously there is a difference of opinion between us. I tend to give people slack, but obviously some others do not seem to work in that way. As far as I can tell, mbandgeek is trying to work out how to use his patchbay and appears to want a definitive answer, something that we cannot give.

I do not intend to lecture, rather to provide a background to what I am saying and lay it out clearly for those who are new and don't understand the difference between a TS and a TRS. If you think that I am lecturing, then ignore my posts.

 

[Mayhem]

Ok - I think that is enough.

One of the reasons that many of us use this site is the fact that individuals are not persecuted for asking questions, regardless of how we perceive them.

Actually, look it it another way, perhaps the answers we are providing are not clear enough. As the saying goes, there is no such thing as a stupid question. However, this sort of attack may not only discourage his participation here but in other situations. Remember sitting in a classroom and not wanting to ask a question or not putting your arm up when a teacher asks “is there anyone that doesn’t understand this” because you didn’t want others to know that you didn’t know something? Well it takes guts to ask questions.

Now there are going to be times when other members annoy us for one reason or another. I certainly know that there have been times when someone has annoyed me and I am sure that I annoy a lot of you also.

Either ignore what they say or refrain from replying. If it gets too much, send them a PM – but beware, as the site will not tolerate abusive PMs being sent.

This is a site that aims to foster and encourage interest and education no matter what the level of experience. I know that there have been (and still are) times when what appears to be the most simple thing has baffled me and reading the instructions have only made it more confusing. Lets keep that in mind when responding in the future.

Wouldn’t your time be better spent trying to find out what it is that he doesn’t understand given the explanations thus far? Either that or don’t read this topic any more.

 

[kingfisher1]

as i see a patch bay it just a traffic cop telling cars (electrical signals) wher to park. If it helps to think of it this way the patch bay is just and extension of you mic cable, with the physical means for better organisation so and effects processors could theretically be put anywhere. (btw, i could be completely off target here, i'm applying lighting logic to sound...)
for my personal set up i pull a mic cable directly for the snake a.k.a a mic, plug it into a channel on the board, then send it through an aux to the processor.

 

[Chris15]

To take all the previous answers and combine them together, we are NOT able to tell you how to plug into YOUR patchbay. We might be able to tell you how to use our own but we do not know how yours is wired. You really need to find someone at your school to tell you how it has been wired.

We would prefer not to be asked again how to plug into a patchbay, there is simply no universal answer. If you can't find anyone at your school, perhaps someone local might be able to come out and look at it and be able to tell you how it is wired.

 

[Eboy87]

Maybe pictures might help?

 

[mbandgeek]

Dare I ask why you want a FEW processors on one mic? This really depends on your school's setup. Why don't you ask someone at your school how your patchbay works?

Because nobody at my school knows how it work either. so i came here. Oh, by few i meant one. The patchbay has just been sitting there no one really knows what it is for.

 

[mbandgeek]

Maybe pictures might help?

on this one, it is simple to explain.

v---------v
lOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOl
lOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOl

That is the basic configuration(might not be enough holes in drawing, best i can do with a text based drawing)

And from there, there is only about 5 cables plugged in on the top row. none on the bottom. the cables just loop back into different holes on the top row.

 

[mbenonis]

The best way to figure out what your patch bay does it to trace cables, if you can. Basically, start on the back with one of the jacks that has something attached in the front. Trace that cable back to wherever it comes from. Then trace the cable that it is jumpered to through the front of the bay, and see where that goes.

If you want to run a mic through a processor, you'll need to see where the mic comes in to the patch bay, where the effects processor goes out front the patch bay, where the effects processor comes back in to the patch bay, and where the mic signal should eventually go. This is determined by tracing cables, or if you can't do that because they run through walls, etc., through trial and error.

You should be aware that many processors are designed only to work with line level signals - that is, signals that come from devices like mixers, tape decks, computers, etc. In that case, you will need to send the mic to an aux out on the board and run that through the processor and back in to the board. You can also insert it on the mic's channel (using that quarter-inch jack labeled insert), but that requires a specially wired cable that you may or may not have laying around.

 

[mbandgeek]

The best way to figure out what your patch bay does it to trace cables, if you can. Basically, start on the back with one of the jacks that has something attached in the front. Trace that cable back to wherever it comes from. Then trace the cable that it is jumpered to through the front of the bay, and see where that goes.

If you want to run a mic through a processor, you'll need to see where the mic comes in to the patch bay, where the effects processor goes out front the patch bay, where the effects processor comes back in to the patch bay, and where the mic signal should eventually go. This is determined by tracing cables, or if you can't do that because they run through walls, etc., through trial and error.

You should be aware that many processors are designed only to work with line level signals - that is, signals that come from devices like mixers, tape decks, computers, etc. In that case, you will need to send the mic to an aux out on the board and run that through the processor and back in to the board. You can also insert it on the mic's channel (using that quarter-inch jack labeled insert), but that requires a specially wired cable that you may or may not have laying around.

thats a good idea, but all the cables lead into what we call "black hole of sound," it has all the sound cables running down that hole. Also when designing the theater, they made all the cables leading in and out of the sound board the same color, and tied it all together with cable ties. so it is near impossible to find what cable leads to what.