What kind of console should I purchase

[SaneScitzo]

Not sure if this is the best or specific place to post this.
I am new to the lighting scene. My goal is to create a lighting concert where I can use lights to go with music. im looking for a console where lights are able to synchronize with every second of sound. They also need to be able to dim and fade during sections of a song and change colors during a song. For a start I want to use 5 par can lights to start off and learn but eventually i want to have around 50 par can lights and a few moving stage lights. Most of the consoles i've looked at are capable of basic memory scene recording but they dont allow me to be specific in, timing what lights should be on when, for how long ,what color, exc., also an average song is about around 3 minutes so i need a console that will be able to save scenes all the way through a song. For starting off and learning i dont want to buy anything too high end, i can do without the moving stage lights console for now if its avoidable (i heard those are pricey.) If you guys could give me specifics on what i need and what to stay away from that would help alot.
To give an example im going to post a link to a video that is sort of what im trying to do.

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MA Light-FX-Christmas Eve 12/24 Lightshow - YouTube

Any help is really appreciated and if there is a better place to post this thread let me know please.

 

[TheaterEd]

From what I can tell, the people who made the video were using MA lighting Products which can be found here.
MA Lighting

If you're just starting off and what to play around with some free programs, you should check out ETC | Stage Lighting Solutions | Theatrical & Rigging Equipment
They let you download their software to your PC so you can try it out and see if it works for you before investing. I'm sure that there is something cheaper that could get the job done for you, but you will have to wait for someone else to stop by this post and let you know

Also, please stop by the new member's board and introduce yourself. The more we know about your situation, the more relevant our advice can be

 

[tk2k]

It sounds like you are looking less for control and more for automation?

Madrix is audio to lighting software with very advanced signal pattern analysis, and is under $600 (very cheap). I'd suggest try that out. To start with at least.

 

[SaneScitzo]

It sounds like you are looking less for control and more for automation?

Im looking for excessive control to the point where it could seem automated.

 

[rm2011]

I saw your post over in the new members board and after reading this post, I have to say that I think you are going to be disappointed. I think your motivation and commitment to create a 'new' style of lighting similar to the one in the video is going to prove to be very valuable, but with experience you will soon see that time and budget are the two most restricting factors in this industry. Programming a show similar to the one in the video probably took weeks of work depending on the console that was used. With that said, you are probably going to want a console that is capable of time code. Calling every one of those cues manually would be an incredibly difficult task. Be prepared to spend in excess of $5000 to find a console that does what you want it to. If you want a console that is not only capable but excellent for both conventional and automated lighting, I'd go with something in the EOS family. Something like an ETC ION. Now if conventional (non-moving) lighting would be your focus, look at the MA series of consoles. They are fantastic at what they do, but are even more expensive. Something in the middle may be a console made by Avolites. They are designed for automation but are moderately easy to use for conventionals. When choosing a console something you are going to want to keep in mind is the ability to expand. Are there fader wings you can purchase to increase your number of submasters? How many universes is the console capable of outputting to? If you're planning on having a lot of automated fixtures, more is better. Is there a restriction to the number of channels available? Is there a way to communicate with the console wirelessly for troubleshooting and focus? It's really all up to you and what you need, you're going to want to try a console before you buy it. If you need any more advice or have any questions regarding the consoles I mentioned, feel free to PM me.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[Les]

I agree that after programming one song, you will see why note-by-note cueing isn't widely used in the concert industry. It takes a ridiculous amount of man hours even with the best equipment. Truth is, no one can afford that payroll -- or they can and they just don't want to spend it on hiring programmers for more time than necessary. There is also the "less is more" philosophy in not overwhelming the audience or detracting from the talent on stage.

That said, it sounds like an awesome project for personal use and if it brings you professional gigs, all the better!

One last suggestion I have is to download a software console such as Magic Q to play around with before buying anything. You will find out very quick that lighting (as with all things technical) [-]can[/-] will become a money pit. Spend the least amount upfront as possible!

 

[sk8rsdad]

If the intention is a light show instead of a concert, you may want to look at Vixen or Nutcracker. They are popular with the Do It Yourself Christmas crowd and are really simple to use with synchronized audio. You will need compatible hardware.

 

[Tex]

I use Vixen for my Christmas lights because of its ease of use. My SmartFade has more "features", but Vixen is really intuitive and I can sync music with 16 channels fairly quickly. I've been tempted to use it for dance shows and choir revues, but I would feel a little silly pushing the Eos to the side to make room for my laptop.

 

[techieman33]

Jands Vista does timecode.

 

[SalvatoreDelorean]

It's important to note that what's in that video is pretty substantially different than the setup you're describing. For a setup like in that video, that requires controlling hundreds of rapidly changing parameters over dozens of automated fixtures, you'd need a concert-oriented board, like the GrandMA, the Hog series by High End Systems, an Avolite, a Martin M1, or a PRG. These boards are intended to give the user direct, hands-on control of complex moving lights, and are best for concerts that might require busking (lighting on the fly in response to music). They have very different interfaces and programming styles than boards intended for theater, where you generally program a series of individual looks into a sequence, and don't have movers swinging around non-stop the entire time. Most of those boards run upwards of $20,000 and require an experienced operator. The show in that video probably took some very experienced people a long time to build, and realistically you shouldn't expect to be able to design or program something like that until you've been doing this for years.

That said, if your setup is 5 par cans, and might max out at 50 par cans and a few movers, your console needs will be drastically different. Some console manufactures make software-based solutions that are much cheaper than buying a board and are better tailored for smaller rigs. This usually involves buying the a modified version of the software that the console runs on, installing it on a laptop, and using a usb-to-dmx interface to connect your computer to the system. Programming a show like this without the physical interface is much more laborious, but much, much cheaper. Often these are used in conjunction with a small control surface (like a miniaturized version of their board) to speed things up a little. As far as concert-oriented versions of this, High End Systems makes the Nano Hog 4, Avolite makes the Diamond 4 Desktop, MA makes the GrandMA on PC, Martin makes the M2Go and the M2PC, etc.

You might also be able to get away with a theater board. Like I said, these work in a much different way than a concert board, and require some non-traditional thinking to work for complex things like concerts and light shows, but it can certainly be done if you have a small rig of mostly conventional lights. These boards usually require you to set the parameters for a particular scene, record it as a static look, and record those looks into a sequence that can be played back. But newer theater boards have much more flexibility in order to meet the demands of increasingly complex plays and musicals, and are equipped to handle decently sized rigs of automated lights. Something from ETC, like the Ion (about $10,000 after things like fader wings and monitors) might be right up your alley. You'll probably find that the traditional scene recording method won't do exactly what you want without requiring that you program about a million cues, and you might have to do something like get creative with how you use submasters. If you can find an experienced user to teach you some tricks that'll do you all the better, everyone has their own little workarounds to tackle certain situations and you won't usually find things like that in a manual.

As was said, if you're programming light shows to recorded music, you'll want to find something that takes timecode (I think most of the consoles I mentioned do). That will allow you to sync cues with specific spots in a song. Someone also mentioned getting your hands on something like Chamsys MagicQ before you buy, which is an excellent idea. These programs (Martin Lightjockey is another great example) are virtual lighting consoles that allow you to explore programming, and when used with visualization software like Martin Showdesigner, can virtually render lighting. This will let you explore your lighting needs so you can get a sense for what kind of console you need.

 

[aldholland]

Try looking for Sweetlight, it has a timeline option where you can putnin your audio or video file and then place your light scenes or chases on top of this line. I used it for some projects and it works great. I you want more info let me know.

 

[FatherMurphy]

If repeating a song's light cues is what you're primarily interested in, then companies like Alcorn McBride make DMX record/playback units. You'd have to run the console manually while the song plays and the recorder runs, but after that the entire series of cues would repeat consistently in playback mode. Sequences can be started manually or via triggers.

Recorders are mostly used for things like theme park shows and museum exhibits, where the timing is locked in, like your pre-recorded songs. They aren't applicable to live performances as much, since humans (especially musicians) tend to vary their timing slightly from show to show.

 

[jpk]

You can do some pretty cool stuff with VenueMagic - DMX Lighting Software without too much expense and you can scale the DMX output hardware to suit where you're at in the project. From what you describe you're probably not exceeding 1 universe and I'd recommend using an Art-Net or sACN interface like our eDMX1 rather than USB DMX.
If you want to automate sound -> light take a look at LightJams

 

[lwinters630]

Im looking for excessive control to the point where it could seem automated.

This appears to be a contradiction, as mentioned earlier regarding program time. The more control, the more time. A 5 min song could take 20+ hours to do well.

Also you will be disapointed with the par cans if you are trying to get the look of the video you posted. Those type of movements and color changes only come with movers. And yes, that was automated.

Although I love ETC ION, the Jands has a feature like video editing software. You pick the lights and effects, place them on a time line. Then you can "pull or push the horizontal bar to meet the time for each and every fixture or effect. I will admit I have not spent a lot of time on the Jands.

Other ways to cue is to run midi from a laptop software (various types) and link into the ION to fire cues at time code spots in the song.

 

[SaneScitzo]

I Thought it would be a good idea to give a progress update to those who were probably interested and get some some feedback. I ended up using the venue magic software as console substitute. The video below is a song i used to test what i wanted to do. I tried to incorporate all sounds into 3 lights.I'd like to know what you guys think about the video or "this" type of lighting experiment.

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Tool - Intermission- J-PRIZM - YouTube

 

[wolfman005]

I'm not sure if anyone else has thrown this out there, but you could go about this using MIDI. A lot of bands use click-tracks or backing tracks for their music. They take their lighting board/software and interface it with the laptop that is running the click-track, then it spits out MIDI to the light board, tripping cues assigned to MIDI notes.

 

[MarfaLights]

Nice programming, but easy on the strobe effect mate!