We have renovation happening in our theater soon, and while contractors are running cables around the building I am hoping to have some infrastructure installed to help with video runs.
In an ideal world I could have my projector movable between 1 of 2 places (catwalk or my anti pro) and I could hook up either my qlab computer in my booth or have a lap top able to plug in somewhere near the stage.
what are the cables and ports I would have want installed?
what are the pieces I would need to purchase to work with the then installed infrastructure?
Some can run through a switch, and others can't. Personally I would do dedicated runs, or at the very least make sure it was it's own network with nothing else attached to it. How long are your runs? Extenders over cat 6 are often only good for 150' or less. The other option is to run SDI it's good for longer ranges up to 600 feet, it will have to have a dedicated run to each location. That could be from projector location to video source location, or you could have a patch panel for it somewhere. Whichever option you choose be sure to run at least 2 lines to each location.
There are very few extenders on the market that can go though network hubs/switches, and if if they can they CAN'T share a hub/switch with network traffic or other extenders...they have to be DEDICATED to the ONE extender!
The reason is MOST extenders don't follow "Ethernet" protocol for signals and wiring configuration...for instance one extender I bought transmits voltage through the Cat cable (using only one power supply that's shared to power both transmitter and receiver instead of one for each end), and this voltage would damage an Ethernethub/switch.
For example, NONE of the extenders *I* bought (HDMI, VGA, USB, XLR) can go through a networkhub/switch...they need a direct connection via dedicated cable and jacks. It specifies that in their manuals!
The "Mirabox" that's mentioned in the link above DOES use Ethernetprotocol, BUT reviews on Amazon say it has "sub-optimal video" including "dropping frames". Don't confuse Cat5/5e/6 etc. with Ethernet!
That is TRUE! Last summer I had SIX dedicated Cat6 lines installed between BOH and FOH, thinking that I wouldn't use them all. Well, I'm using one HDMI extender up (for presenters to connect to BOH projector), two VGA extenders down (one for controlling the BOH computer, the other for seeing what the projector will show), a USB extender down (for controlling BOH computer), a 4x XLR extender down, and decided to use the last one to extend a wireless router access point...that's all six already used up!
One last piece of advice...Cat6 may not be best for all devices...some existing extenders specify Cat5e or Cat5...I know the VGA extenders are VERY fussy, and while it's good enough quality image for my needs, if I wanted to use them for projection I'd have to replace the Cat6 cable I got with Cat5 cable specified in the manual.
Also while most extenders specify UTP (Unshielded Twisted Pair), the XLR extender I bought actually specifies SHIELDED Cat cable...while in my configuration I can get away with using UTP cable, I can't use phantom voltage without the shielding as it needs the ground connection to do phantom.
Mike has this correct. Many video systems are merely using the Cat 6 wiring as wiring, they are not sending signal via TCP/IP and as such, have no need for a switch.
Best practice is to install an Ethernet patch pay as well as a (potentially unused for the moment) PoEswitch.
Total length also has to be considered. Because of the 100 meter limit on CAT, we installed fiber along with CAT6. As mentioned above some extenders don't play well with other network traffic, however, we are about to start a build where video and Dante will share a network. We will see around July 1st how that works out. As a side note, CAT 6 and 6A are superior to CAT 5e and in any use specifying 5e they should work. The limiting factor on some CAT devices, X-32, M-32 and the like is shielding.
While that may be true, the extenders themselves have their own limitations depending on which one you buy. For instance the electrically measured distance using a Fluke Cat cable measuring device (that includes any resistance in jacks) in our setup is 75 feet/23m, and the first device we got had a limit of 30m...it worked, but it was a low-end one we bought for our initial testing when we ran less cable and we weren't happy with its performance with the longer permanent wiring (it would lose the link from time to time and would have to do a new handshake).
Superior for Ethernet may not be better for extenders if they specify an earlier cable type. For instance the VGA extenders we got send analog signals through the Cat cable, and the specs of the "better" cable causes issues with the picture...see the following link which I wrote when I first started using VGA extenders and had issues of smearing: https://www.controlbooth.com/threads/anyone-find-a-vga-extender-that-works.43347/
The following is the BOH/booth end of our Cat setup...there's similar jacks at the FOH location:
Actually had a tough time finding a Cat installer who wanted to touch the job...contacted 15 companies for quotes describing this is a Cat setup for extenders, and that it would require running the cable 20 feet up (from floor to above the ceiling of the auditorium), and only ONE company sent us a quote back to take the job...don't know if it's the fact we weren't using this for Ethernet use, or the fact of the high cable run that scared the others off. Even so the company that did the job we weren't happy with...even though they saw the room and the height beforehand they came with a FOLDING ladder that was too short (they had to use the top rung), they installed the wrong cables (we specified 5e and they installed 6a because it was "better"), they used the smallest raceway they could get away with (no room for future expansion), and they left cut off wire garbage behind.
My standard for AV tielines intended for video extenders is shielded CAT6A -- specifically West Penn 4246A.
You are better looking for an AV installer to do this work than a generic cabling installer. Cabling installers -- surprisingly, tend to do very little work with shielded cables. They can install shielded cable, but depending on the contractor it may not be their forte. I often see them using the wrong crimpers on the shielded connectors, using whatever mish mash of leftover shielded connectors they had in their inventory, or even sometimes using shielded cable with unshielded connectors (defeating the purpose of the shielding altogether).
Upon installation and termination, the installer not only needs to perform a wire map, but they need to run a CAT6A F/UTPchannel certification. There are a number of performance characteristics that can cause a cable to fail in a high-bandwith application that will not show up on a simple wire map test. These certification tester kits cost $20k/ea, so again -- you need to make sure you're contracting someone who is qualified and equipped to perform this work. Certification test reports should be given to you afterward in a PDF format. If you have problems down the road with your equipment, manufacturers will often require to see these before they give you too much support for what could be a cabling issue. That test report should look something like this:
If you have a projector with a native HDBASET input that you want to use, then you need to buy an HDBASET transmitter (Crestron, Kramer, insert-your-favorite-brand-here etc.). If not, then you'll need a full transmitter/receiver pair. Not all HDBASET(ish) systems are created equal. Refer to product cut sheets for length limitations at specific resolutions. Length limitations are not just about the cables in the walls. They also include any patch cords you need to get between jacks and your equipment. If you want to drive an input at FOH to a data patch panel in your control booth, and then down another data cable out to your catwalkprojector, you need to account for the whole length of the signal flow. TX > PATCH CORD > CABLE TO BOOTH > PATCH CORD > CABLE TO CATWALK > PATCH CORD.
ALTERNATIVE OPTION:
You can save some expense on shielded cabling if you go with an Ethernet-based option. Then you only need unshielded CAT6 for your cabling and a decent gigabit networkswitch to play traffic cop (this should not be part of your building network). There's a wide variety of Ethernet-based systems available on the market. They all involve some degree of compression. Lower-cost units tend to have more latency or compression codecs that noticeably degrade the signal. The higher grade units that have only 1-2 frames of latency, go up to 4K 4:4:4, and have no discernible degradation are AMX's SVSI or Crestron's NVX product series. You can get away with paying less for Ethernet-based solutions ala Amazon, but I wouldn't plan on doing IMAG because everyone will be able to see that the video is noticeably lagging behind the action on-stage.
Basically -- you can invest in higher grade shielded CAT6A cabling, or you can go with common unshielded CAT6 cabling and higher grade electronics. For whatever it's worth, the trend is toward Ethernet-based solutions on unshielded CAT6 as the prices for the electronics come down.
Basically -- you can invest in higher grade shielded CAT6A cabling, or you can go with common unshielded CAT6 cabling and higher grade electronics. For whatever it's worth, the trend is toward Ethernet-based solutions on unshielded CAT6 as the prices for the electronics come down.
Many are specified that way to accommodate existing conditions, but generally you can go a longer distance with shielded cabling. Assuming you don't know what you're going to use it for or you want to be able to do 4K at some point (and yes, the cost is coming down on 4K projectors), shielded cabling is a wiser infrastructure choice for point-to-point HDBASET.
Many are specified that way to accommodate existing conditions, but generally you can go a longer distance with shielded cabling. Assuming you don't know what you're going to use it for or you want to be able to do 4K at some point (and yes, the cost is coming down on 4K projectors), shielded cabling is a wiser infrastructure choice for point-to-point HDBASET.
It’s a marketing talking point. There are more people in the world searching for extenders that work with their existing cabling than there are people shopping for extenders to use with new shielded cabling. Makes for better search engine optimization.
You will particularly find when you get into 4K60 or 4:4:4 color that the bandwidth simply pushes beyond what an unshielded cable can perform at for any reasonable distance. It’s a 10G link. You may be able to cheat 10G performance out of a UTP solution, but only for a limited distance under ideal conditions (low noise environment, minimal number of cables bundled together, twists in pairs maintained as close as possible up to terminations, minimal looping, kinking, etc in cabling, so on)
VGA doesn’t begin to approach 1G capacity for UTP C6. The way you get better performance out of that is by better electronics, not so much better cabling, and most VGA extenders are analog signals so the amount of extra performance they can get out of higher grade data cabling is a diminishing return.
On the side topic of 10G, there is actually a small side of the market pushing a 10G video-over-Ethernet protocol called SDVoE. SDVoE is the FLAC-wannabe of video signals. Lossless-ish, but it’s still compressed. Only a few companies like Christie Digital are pushing it as a heavenly solution. High buy-in cost because you need devices that support it, shielded 6A to handle the 10G links, and beefy 40G or 100G enterprise core switches to handle the bandwidth. After all that, you’ll never get the payoff out of it that someday maybe you can use it to distribute all over your existing enterprise network. Very few worthwhile applications for it IMO.
OK, so i'm attaching a drawing of the space, nothing should be more then 100'. I think from what you guys are saying this may be what I ask the contractors for.
I want the projector to be set at either potion A or B and the computer running patch in at either 1 or 2
So i think i will ask for 4 nodes at each point with two cables (cat6 shielded?) froming along each colored line.
if in the future for what ever reason I need a line going from 1 to 2 i could use a little jumper at either A or B to connect the lines.
Then I will figure out the equipment I need going forward. but I figure get these runs in while I can.
We have renovation happening in our theater soon, and while contractors are running cables around the building I am hoping to have some infrastructure installed to help with video runs.
In an ideal world I could have my projector movable between 1 of 2 places (catwalk or my anti pro) and I could hook up either my qlab computer in my booth or have a lap top able to plug in somewhere near the stage.
what are the cables and ports I would have want installed?
what are the pieces I would need to purchase to work with the then installed infrastructure?
You can safely run 6 (or more) lengths of CAT 6 STP in a single 1/2" EMT run, terminating them in a single gang box with a 6 port RJ45 cover. If you are going to pull CAT6 through EMT, you might as well pull 6 runs, to have some expansion capability, such as for DMX, intercoms, or just to check your mail or ticket sales from the anti-pro positions, FOH, or the grid.
