What to Do About Rakes?

bobgaggle

Well-Known Member
Building another rake for another show. As always, I run into the problem of dimensions. Is the foot print 20' or does the deck measure 20'? I draw whatever works for me and that's usually what gets built. The designer is never going to pull out a tape and see what the real dimension is. Especially when its not a rectangle and it has a funky angle-y profile... What do yall do in these situations?
 
Building another rake for another show. As always, I run into the problem of dimensions. Is the foot print 20' or does the deck measure 20'? I draw whatever works for me and that's usually what gets built. The designer is never going to pull out a tape and see what the real dimension is. Especially when its not a rectangle and it has a funky angle-y profile... What do yall do in these situations?
@bobgaggle Regardless, NEVER exceed Equity's steepest permissible rake angle. (Regardless what some 'dooffus' thinks she / he wants or needs.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.
 
I follow the GP and sectional drawings the designer provided (hopefully!!) That will show that they've already decided on the dimensions and what one is more important.

If they dont provide drawings, I would do 20' of floor so that you dont end up with an odd measurement once built at the angle
 
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Ya, ask for a section....

Or just build it with the hypotenuse in nice round numbers so you aren't stuck framing and skinning a 9 5/16"" extra on the upstage piece.

And I hate raked stages. They don't do what people think they do and they complicate pretty much everything else.
 
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Ya, ask for a section....

Or just build it with the hypotenuse in nice round numbers so you aren't stuck framing and skinning a 9 5/16"" extra on the upstage piece.

And I hate raked stages. They don't do what people think they do and they complicate pretty much everything else.
@Footer You'd have LOVED any of the full-blown productions of Les Miz' with the 40 HP raked revolve with the inset train tracks for the pair of hydraulic accumulator powered mobile barricades, two traps which had to align with the basement trap room and the center donut hole that sometimes revolved with the raked revolve and sometimes was locked stationary with the revolve free to rotate around it. Black and white and IR video so SM's could visually confirm when pneumatically pinned locks were securely in place to prevent performers from being cut in half while entering via traps. 40 horsepower is a decent sized DC servo. The whole rig was quite impressive in situ, even more so when touring. Standing on the rake counting lamps for your lamp check while the revolve was resetting for the top of show was always an 'interesting' experience. I quickly learned to appreciate how adept and nimble our performers were.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.
 
@Footer Elaborate, please. Interested in your thoughts on the desired and actual effects.

My feeling is equity rules (1/2" rise per 1' of run) basically neuter the effect of a rake so much its pretty much useless. You don't get the ability to block scenes with actual depth because the rake is so shallow. Yes, you can get approval for more of a rake but everyone freaks out and odds are someone will have to cough up more money. You also now complicate everything else. Actors are no longer comfortable walking. Any props/furniture that touch the deck have to be counter raked. You can't put a lift onstage which makes lighting focus next to impossible.
 
My feeling is equity rules (1/2" rise per 1' of run) basically neuter the effect of a rake so much its pretty much useless. You don't get the ability to block scenes with actual depth because the rake is so shallow. Yes, you can get approval for more of a rake but everyone freaks out and odds are someone will have to cough up more money. You also now complicate everything else. Actors are no longer comfortable walking. Any props/furniture that touch the deck have to be counter raked. You can't put a lift onstage which makes lighting focus next to impossible.
@Footer Excuse me but in Canada Les Miz' toured the country with a counter-raked personnel lift for focusing. It worked flawlessly so long as none of your ground crew attempted to rotate the lift in relation to the rake. Awkward, yes. Difficult, yes. Impossible, no.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.
 
You can have aisles that are 1:8 (1:5 when I started as a consultant and still in some historic theaters), so I'm not sure I feel you need to limit a stage to 1:24. I designed a renovation of a Scout camp fire bowl and raked (with a blade on a tractor) the "stage" and it was clearly much better. Probably 1:15 or so. (The McCandless lighting with two fire pits and propane footlights as well as the "shell" helped.)
 
I imagine the reason for fakes being shallow compared to aisles is that you never traverse an aisle, so you’re less likely to roll an ankle on the steep angle...
 
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You can install any rake you want unless you are in an Equity house then you are limited to their rules. Anything smaller than a LORTD, technically, cannot use a raked stage. Use of a rake automatically triggers a hazzard pay clause and special dispensation for complicated rakes or rakes pitched more that 1/2" to the foot incur greater financial compensation.
 
I imagine the reason for fakes being shallow compared to aisles is that you never traverse an aisle, so you’re less likely to roll an ankle on the steep angle...
But usually aisle accessways - what codes call the path between two rows of chairs - is transverse to the slope. It was once more common, especially for 1:5 aisles, to transition from sloped aisle to level aisle accessway, but those transitions are not without peril.
 
You can install any rake you want unless you are in an Equity house then you are limited to their rules. Anything smaller than a LORTD, technically, cannot use a raked stage. Use of a rake automatically triggers a hazzard pay clause and special dispensation for complicated rakes or rakes pitched more that 1/2" to the foot incur greater financial compensation.

Yup, all that. I also don't like the "Well, we aren't union so we can do it" line of thinking. Equity has these rules for a reason. Stupid as we think their rules may be, I've seen more injuries due to rakes then I care to mention. They just simply aren't worth the hassle.
 
Equity has these rules for a reason.

I'm sure this is true but is it a good and valid reason? People rob banks for a reason - and not just because that is where the money is. I learned a long time ago that regulations and codes have reasons - but not necessarily good ones, ones that justify the rule, or up to date reasons.
 
When I saw the title of this thread I thought someone was trying to reform someone they saw as a rake.
 
I'm sure this is true but is it a good and valid reason? People rob banks for a reason - and not just because that is where the money is. I learned a long time ago that regulations and codes have reasons - but not necessarily good ones, ones that justify the rule, or up to date reasons.
Actually, Equity and OSHA have performed many studies to determine the long term effects of working on uneven ground; in addition to an increased chance of tripping and falling, you've met actors before, right? There is also a greatly increased chance of lower backinjury and knee/ankle injury from adapting to new center-of-balance compensation.
 
Actually, Equity and OSHA have performed many studies to determine the long term effects of working on uneven ground; in addition to an increased chance of tripping and falling, you've met actors before, right? There is also a greatly increased chance of lower back injury and knee/ankle injury from adapting to new center-of-balance compensation.
@Van @BillConnerFASTC Speaking in support. I played Head LX for six weeks on a sit-down production of the full-bore production of Les Miz' before it left Toronto to begin a North American tour. My predecessor was a tall fellow who was off for six weeks suffering from a back injury sustained while counting instruments as part of his pre-performance lamp check on the raked revolve while it was rotating to its preset. Eight performances per week the cast sang, danced, fought and leapt over props, furnishings and one another with well choreographed apparent ease. Side-stepping my way across the revolve while staring up counting instruments per pipe was more than enough of a challenge for me plus I had being short in my favor.
Just an aside about the original Allan Bradley 40 horsepower DC servo driven turntable.
Over the course of each performance the table turned both directions. By the end of each performance it had rotated approximately 40 revolutions more in one direction than the other. If you think about, a turntable can NEVER be more than 180 degrees from the desired position, regardless of where it is and where it needs to be. The original drive counted rotations, and fractions of, using a separate double width roller chain belt which encircled the entire turntable and drove a sprocket driven optically coupled counter which kept track of positional counts and direction. A system of pneumatically tensioned rollers kept the roller chain tight and minimized back-lash. This was a totally separate system from the wraps of a continuous heavy ACL loop which coupled the drive to the revolve for driving purposes. What would seem archaic by today's standards was the only way to reset the revolve to it's top of the overture starting position was for it to ramp up to speed and sit there spinning back approximately 40 complete revolutions before gently de-celling and parking accurately on its starting point.
@porkchop I suspect you'll appreciate the ludicrousness of this reset procedure by today's standards.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.
 
I'm sure this is true but is it a good and valid reason? People rob banks for a reason - and not just because that is where the money is. I learned a long time ago that regulations and codes have reasons - but not necessarily good ones, ones that justify the rule, or up to date reasons.

As a union member, officer and organizer, I can tell you that workplace safety rules come about for good and proper reasons... people get hurt and those injuries are often not temporary and fully recoverable, i.e. back injuries. Some injuries may take days, weeks or months to present themselves, too.
 

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