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What type of Gobos?

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by zac850, Jan 8, 2004.

  1. zac850

    zac850 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure what type of Gobos I sould get my school to buy. The show is Into The Woods. What I'm looking for is the right Gobo, or combonation of different Gobos for a deep woods area. I'm not exactly how to put this, but the woods is very thick and lush in the first act, and in the secound the woods are soposto be barren, like all the leaves fell off the trees... I went to a few different websites but I don't have enough experience in this to be able to tell from looking at the Gobo what it will look like on the stage.I am also debating about using a white screne in the back insteed of spending the time and money getting or making a backdrop of woods. Maybe using the gobos with green light... and then it would be easyer to make the entire woods red when the witch comes in and stuff...

    anyway, any one have any sugestions for what gobo's to order?
    Thanks, Zac

    PS, excuse me for typeo's, my keybord is laging for some strange reason...
     
  2. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Are you still in the same Gym theater? Stage very small and shallow? That might be a very important design consideration for the foliage to consider. What’s going to be more realistic a projected scenery on a back wall, a back wall of painted drop, more or less three dimensional scenery all over the stage similar to wing and drop type panels of trees but in this case at least partially three dimensionally constructed, or a combination of projected scenery and dimensional stuff. That’s also a time and budget thing which will necessitate consideration. Given your reported crew, can they pull off making the scenery given that’s the solution, or would it be a wise investment to be renting scenery given other budgetary goals.

    In other words, given the depth of the stage, I might go for a combination of set and lights to do the forest with scenery plus lights. Say a cyc with projected foliage, a scrim than a dimensional scenic forest. The more detail and layers, the better it would look even if fairly close together in depth. But unless you could borrow such stock scenery from another benevolent college or high school, I would not put the bucks into it renting. Nor would I put too much into the crew’s abilities to make art on time. Should be if in a high school with a great drama department, the tree set would be a great experience, but from what I understand, your’s is still in the building stages and “KISS” Keep It Simple Stupid would probably be the best solution. Or as my theory of past goes, scale it down to the level of the production. Less can be more if the talent is able to do their part. More is less if they can’t anyway. In the mean time, perhaps for this element and concept you do the best you can reasonably be able to pull off within budget and skill level.

    I did not read or do the play but from what you describe, there is more to the differences in forest than just leaves, it would also be atmosphere. Could even use the more sparse one to add to the dense one but that’s cuing. To me two looks to it says two scenes worth of patterns projected. One more dense, the other more sparse. I’m beginning to become a big fan of custom gobos and glass filter colored ones - almost slides. Probably not the best solution for you on a budget. Might get pricing anyway at least for the greens, saves time and effort in making what is otherwise shadow effected green forest.
    Otherwise many patterns come in sets of two or three. They match up with each other for a unified picture as projected across the stage as opposed to just a bunching here and another there of differing designs best fuzzed out so you can’t tell the differences. So, given projected back wall of three or more instruments, for one scene and three more of another, plus various breakups for down and side lights that might or might not be the same patterns, where does that put you control and fixture wise considering that’s not general, key and wash lighting that would be involved with all? Say, what new lights did you get anyway? Any new cool stuff?
     
  3. digitaltec

    digitaltec Active Member

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    I used Apollo & Rosco Gobo's for Into The Woods. They tend to hold up better. When I get a change let me look through the current catalogs and see what I can find that would work well for the show. When do you need to order them by?
     
  4. zac850

    zac850 Well-Known Member

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    Um, lets see, we didn't get anything yet, but i'm hoping to get the lights in about 5 weeks, as well as the board and dimmers to go with them. Since this is one of the biggest shows we've ever done, i'm trying to get all of the stuff up and done early, because things are, as always, going to get pushed back...
    It seems that I am going to be in charge of purchasing things, and accutly requesting the checks from the adminostratin, insteed of needeing to ask the teachers to request them...
    thanks for all the info
    Zac
     
  5. Starlitr

    Starlitr Member

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    Use Rosco realistic leaves, and don't forget to use donuts. Soften the focus ever so slightly and mount from sides up high down onto stage. If you have another circuit, then another set that bleeds onto cyc would be a good idea, but don't overdo it. The effect of people walking through the leaves is great, and having the cyc be able to contrast or be dark, or starry is best. No color is needed (no, do not gel the leaves green!)

    As far as the bare branch effect, don't worry about it unless you have the resources of instruments and money for bare branch gobos. Just don't use the leaves, or use them very slightly. By contrast leaves in the first act and none in the second, you will have your two different looks.

    Steve
     
  6. zac850

    zac850 Well-Known Member

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    ok, um, what are donuts? Are they things that go around the gobo to block the extra light (i'm assuming you don't mean dunkin donuts :D )

    Thanks a lot!!!
    Zac
     
  7. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    A donut is much like a gel frame. Sits in the gel frame slot but is a smaller opening. Kind of like the gate in your Leko, It blocks the very stray rays of lights from getting to the lens train. This donut on a Leko will be a second gate in blocking further stray light going off in all directions including at odd angles to your pattern, from mudding up your pattern with light. Got to try such a thing to see what it will do for your image. The difference between a focused beam and one that is kind of but still not that graphic.

    Since you have the cash, price them out to see if they are still in budget otherwise if careful you can make them.

    Gam wrap as a brand of tinfoil like stuff with a black oxide coating is frequently used on stage to mask light out of a instrument. Such foil when trimmed center about say 3.1/2" in dia, and the outer size of a gel frame will probably work fine. Depends upon the fixture for the exact donut size, some even offer two sizes of donut, but say if you can afford one true factory donut, on a budget cut the rest on Gam wrap. In the end, it's not going to narrow your beam angle much, just refine it alot.

    Good point amongst many starlighter.

    Of very interesting study also would be if you are using a other than ETC S-4 fixture for projecting the pattern. I would really like to hear a study about the Osran HPR 575w lamp for use with patterns. It as a replacement for a GLC or HX-600/FLK lamp would be very intersting to study given it's more refined beam of light. Might with donut be even more effective in a Shakesphere or SL fixture than a beam projected with a S-4 fixture.

    Another option would be to rent a 90 degree Selcon Leko and see what it with say one pattern might be able to do for you. Fairly well new fixture to the market. I was not impressed but that was without pattern and in a lit room.
     
  8. Starlitr

    Starlitr Member

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    Sorry I didn't elaborate on the donut myself--just assumed everyone knew. Just to clarify a few points--what happens is the surface of the lens itself creates what we call "specular reflection". That basically sends stray light off the surface of the lens in various directions which "muddies" the pattern beyond what you can control through regular distance/aperture focus. If you are using a gobo, you almost certainly want to use a donut. Yes, you really should have a few sizes of diameter, because the lens, specific gobo selected, and instrument type will influence the masking desired. You can easily make your own donuts with a roll of flashing from the hardware store. Just cut them to size of gel frame, and then scribe and cut 2-3 different diameters (I keep 2, 2 1/2, and 3" sizes in my gobo box and have them for various frame sizes as well. I keep the donuts in their own frames--why cut yourself on a sharp edge--also much more "professional" package.) I also tend to use top-hats or snoots on many of my instruments, especially if I want to conceal the source (perhaps for a very intimate special on a very dark stage, or an aisle light mounted within the house). For those of you who do not know about top-hats--they look just like one--imagine a coffee can attached to a gel frame (those were the first ones I used--made them in 6th grade for a production of Oklahoma). And, of course I use barn doors on most of my Fresnels. As far as "black wrap", I use that mainly to solve "light leaks" on instruments when I don't have time to fix the instrument any other way.

    Steve
     
  9. seanb

    seanb Member

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    from a musical show perspective, a snoot will reduce the spill outside of the area your have shuttered for the artist's special. Always a good idea. Along with a diffuser gel (I use Rosco 114) and a soft colour (R05) it sort of makes the person glow, you can't really tell where the light is coming from or where it is cut too. Very professional!
     

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