# what would you charge?

#### len

##### Well-Known Member
So I do lighting rental where we deliver, set up, program, take away. Most of the product we use is fairly expensive (moving lights, etc.) and we charge the client per item (cost of the lights, cost of cable, cost of programming, cost for trucking, etc.) so it's all itemized. I don't do a "package."

Got a call to light a wedding using just pin spots. I can buy them (don't own any at the moment) for about $20 each and clamps would be another$5 each. All the other necessary gear I already have. Would you charge them typical percentage of cost for the rental (which would only be about $2 each), or a flat fee for the whole bunch (about 48), or charge about$5 per unit, or what?

#### BillESC

##### Well-Known Member
Len,

I'd buy the pinspots with clamps from a place I know for $13.00 each and charge the client$ 10.00 each.

#### jonhirsh

##### Active Member
charge them a flat $500 for something that simple. And brides are crazy they will pay it. A freind of mine had a wedding she was offerd a gobo with her and husbands name on the dance floor in a hart. The price quoted was$700 including the light.

You can charge whatever you want.

As for a normal rental if its a small one just charge what your cost is plus a small percentage its not worth wasting to much time on that gig.

JH

#### Pie4Weebl

##### Well-Known Member
Fight Leukemia
So I do lighting rental where we deliver, set up, program, take away. Most of the product we use is fairly expensive (moving lights, etc.) and we charge the client per item (cost of the lights, cost of cable, cost of programming, cost for trucking, etc.) so it's all itemized. I don't do a "package."
Got a call to light a wedding using just pin spots. I can buy them (don't own any at the moment) for about $20 each and clamps would be another$5 each. All the other necessary gear I already have. Would you charge them typical percentage of cost for the rental (which would only be about $2 each), or a flat fee for the whole bunch (about 48), or charge about$5 per unit, or what?

#### BillESC

##### Well-Known Member
Perhaps to the general public. Friends, I believe get freindly prices.

#### ship

##### Senior Team Emeritus
I would think that 10% of your cost including the shipping, your time, clamps, safety cables and lamps would be a fair rental price. After ten shows you replace them or make money off them. This given perhaps a few more dollars on the profit. $5.00 each I would think safe. This given it’s a 100hr lamp, that rental price should safely involve the full lamp life also by the end of ten shows. Perhaps add in the cost of doing the install, extra cables needed delivery and maintenance etc. in paying for the extra time that will be necessary for the use of them. Bumping up to$10.00 each might be within the range though if I saw that price I might question it given what the fixture is.

Than again, if you have never had a need for them before, suppose it’s a consideration of if it’s an investment that will pay off in doing ten shows within a reasonable amount of time, charging more for something that will collect dust, or perhaps something that should be rented on the opposing side of the spectrum. This given by the time you pay the rental and transport, than prep the gear you on this fixture might just as well have bought them.

Don’t know if it helps, but perhaps it’s stuff to consider. Perhaps something used on E-Bay? Fairly dependable fixtures without much that needs major work. Too bad I have no idea of what happened to the tub of like 20 of these fixtures I once had. Couldn’t afford replacing the lamps on them primarily after a wee slight mistake in testing the wiring in series concept... Yup, early in my career I took perfectly good fixtures with transformers and wired them in series. One wee mistake and pop pop pop... they all went or at least half went instantly with the rest blowing later.

All that’s left of them is six in my garage, we could chat off line, something like buy new lamps for them and that’s sufficient for rental but again such fixtures could be a good investment. For my pinspots, I also did a sort of lamp bar for them. 7/8" Unistrut with a C-Clamp at it’s center. Bolted to the side of the Unistrut is three duplex boxes to plug the pin spots into. Hang one 30" bar and all six fixtures are mounted. You also don’t have to mess around with a bunch of cube taps. Saves a lot of time if they are all single position, otherwise mount to a few bars and it’s fairly easy to mount as if lamp bar.

For the investment, look for a H4515 lamp. Same amount of lamp hours, 12,000 more candlepower than the stock #4515 lamp. The “Made in China” lamp I’m not sure if you will get a full output but it’s a concept. American DJ fixtures come with the crap China lamps, for the most part they are not bad fixtures - your standard stock pinspot. World Stage & Disco Lighting Co. Ltd. #WSD-1020-3 if they still sell them is also not a bad - stock pinspot, perhaps even better than the American DJ version. The simplification of the American DJ fixture didn’t solve any problems, but it still functions ok.

Best pinspots probably are not made any longer but instead of the peanut butter jar type screw, they were either hinged or had clips with knobs for removing the lamp cap. Much more safe by way of stuff hitting the fixture and the lamp falling out - happens too easily to the extent of the last pinspots I made into DWE and #4596 fixtures, this in addition to venting the rear of the fixture, I had to add safety cables and lamp screens. Didn’t want to trust that screw thread. Speaking of that project, should have dozens of replacement transformers for pinspots at work should any go bad - ever.

For real investment in a pinspot, I would call TMB, play tested the initial version, slight errors in sizing and engineering it but a darned good fixture with gel frame slot once upgraded. Hope it helps.

#### len

##### Well-Known Member
Ship,

As always, thanks for all the thoughts. My mother is in town, but after she leaves I should head out and buy you lunch. I'm only about 40 minutes away.

Bill,

You'll hear from me if I book this job.

All,

The way that works best for me is to itemize a bunch of options, based on the space, what the client asks for, etc. Once I get my main pc back (which has all my quote templates) I'll post a copy of how I quote a job if anyone is interested.

I've never thot to include pinspots (they'll hit the flowers at each table). The other issue is whether I use a 10' pipe and put 4 - 6 on each pipe, or do I find Marley Bars (which I think are ugly and don't go up as high). I'm leaning towards pipe, as it's a lower profile.

#### BillESC

##### Well-Known Member
Unistrut or Versabar would be the ticket. Only one clamp required and of course nuts and bolts for the fixtures. Far easier to deal with.

#### stantonsound

##### Active Member
Sorry I'm a little late getting in on this one. I'm with van. I usually charge 10% of the value as well, with a few exceptions. Cables are less, usually about 4% (as that is the going rate in town). Many places will charge a 20% charge to have the shop pull the order and get it ready for you. i don't, but I do charge delivery, shipping, packing, set-up time, etc...

Many of the shops that I work with (we all have a really good relationship) will not touch the smaller events like this one. They see it as more of a hassle than it is worth. They usually pass them on to me, as I am the smallest true rental house in town (there are always DJ's, etc....that think that they are but they have never heard of 5pin dmx or Source Four fixtures,so they don't count).

#### len

##### Well-Known Member
Sorry I'm a little late getting in on this one. I'm with van. I usually charge 10% of the value as well, with a few exceptions. Cables are less, usually about 4% (as that is the going rate in town). .
Pinspots are the starting point. I've done jobs where the final tab is 10 -15 times what the original quote was. I'll open their eyes to a bunch of possibilities.

Bill, unistrut is a possibility. Would shorten time on the site. I could pre-assemble some of them so there would only be one connection.

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#### BillESC

##### Well-Known Member
Len,

My thoughts exactly.

#### len

##### Well-Known Member
I sent the quote to the bride on Sunday and she went for most of it. Gave her $10 per fixture and she went for it. Typically, the way I quote a job is to list the number of fixtures, and the cost per, the cost for stands (Pipe & Base in this case) plus I list the price for cabling, delivery, labor, etc. all separately. FYI, there was a bunch of other stuff on it as well. From 20 pin spots the bill grew to about$2,500.

#### ship

##### Senior Team Emeritus
I'm currently on Amazon - "Stage Studio Lighting Equipment" and noting that BulbAmerica seems to have a four pack amongst other up to eight pack packages of these standardized pinspots available really cheap - like around $8.00 to$9.00 each with lamp. Not sure what a "Platinum 4515" lamp is but in theory it's the stockChina lamp that will at best live up to it's expecte life but in theory last long enough to pay for itself. Given the lamp itself is worth in retail about \$4.00 each on the high side for it, that's not a bad price for what seems in the photo as if the stock pinspot. Becoming one of their dealers might further shave a few pennies off the retail cost.

Perhaps it might be an idea.

Lunch, come on up. Ought to meet at some point, much less see the new shop.

#### len

##### Well-Known Member
Is there a good place to eat around there? I've been by the shop once. But I only saw the first 10 feet inside a door. Returned some stuff from another company I was working for at the time.

Let's plan a date for next week. How about Friday the 6th?

And I already put Bill on the line for the pinspots. Me be a dealer? No thanks. I have enough irons in the fire.