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what's the difference?

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by techybabe, Nov 2, 2003.

  1. techybabe

    techybabe Member

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    ok what's the difference between a fresnel and a lee fresnel (not sure about spelling)?
     
  2. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    What's the options to choose from given a test question?

    Try making it into some kind of a poll because besides the spelling is right except not capatalizing Fresnel or Lee as proper names. I'm not even sure what the question is and having answers to choose from which would help me understand it given it's some kind of question you already have the answer to. Otherwise, if you do not have the answer, can you put a little more explination into the question you seek an answer to?

    Given it's a candy type question:
    My guess, Fresnel being what a lighting instrument is called that uses that style of lens made by a French physicist, Augustin Jean Fresnel and probably brought to market and trade name status by either Colortran if that old as a company, Strand or Kliegl, but Lee somehow owns it now, perhaps than Fresnel would only be a propre name to a Lee Colortran product, the rest being slang names for similar lights - as a thought but probably not an accurate one. This would be similar to Leko being a trade name for a Century product as bought out by Strand, Strand ellipsoidals are the only fixtures now officially carrying the title and brand name of Leko.

    Perhaps the question or answer is that if Colortran was the company that introduced fixtures with Fresnel lenses to which I am not aware of, than Lee would perhaps have trademark rights to it. Subsiquent to the question, if Lee retained the rights to calling their Fresnel lensed fixtures Fresnels, than that would be a difference between a fresnel and a lee fresnel, even though Lee as a company does not and has never made fixtures, and you did not make the second use of Fresnel following Lee proper names as a clue, much less proper use of the language. Are you confused yet???

    Let me try more...
    Lee as a company used to own Colortran, and Colortran has been known to make some darn good Fresnels. But Lee as a company apart from Colortran never did. Or Lee is not much responsible for the Fresnels that Colortran built while owned by Lee, but Lee if owning Colortran Fresnels at the same time as Lee owned Colortran, could gain the name of Lee Fresnels similar to how Strand took over the Century title of Leko and uses it for thier own. On the other hand, since Colortran has been owned by many companies and Colortran, assuming it ended it's existance such as Century did with Strand, Lee cannot take any more credit for a Colortran title Fresnel given they owned the trademark to it, or anything colortran manufactured, more than Strand would be able to take credit for or offer parts to Berkley Colortran Fresnels even though they both had the Colortran name. Also the fact that Strand never called their Fresnels anything different after they stopped owning Colortran thus it can't be a trademark specific to Lee such as Leko is to Strand. Colortran is now owned by NSI/Leviton, calling the Leviton help line most probably will not get me the answer to your question either by the way, nor will Lee as a gel and tool company have a clue about Fresnels.



    I don't get it, much less what the main difference between a Fresnel from Lee Colortran - given that's the link and all other Fresnels would be if that's the question. The beam spread, shape and lamp type while unique certainly is certainly not unique to a instrument of that name.

    It might also be a little too specific and vague a question for most people to know. Can you expand?
    Perhaps it's in refrence to the fact that lee is a misspelling for "le" - thus your spelling question mark, a French "the" and the lens was invented by the French person responsible for it's name that is also responsible the collapse on Young's partical theory of light making way for the current Wave theory? Is that a part of the answer???

    Got my brain a humping too hard, please explain with more than a "LOL".
     
  3. Les

    Les Well-Known Member

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    My best guess would be that a "Lee Fresnel" would be manufactured by Lee Colortran. Just like Lee Filters, etc... If you notice on some Colortran boards, clamps, etc... The brand name is "Lee Colortran". This is probably just their way of identifying their own product, just like SL Ellipsoidal; "SL" stands for Strand Leko. With "ETC Source Four", ETC is an acronym for Electronic Theatre Controls. Just a guess, probably no real difference between that and any other similar instrument from another company.
     
  4. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Back in college, the Berkey Colortran Fresnels were more popular than the rest, but I have never heard of anyone calling a Colortran Fresnel a Lee Fresnel. They did call them Berkies, but I believe Berkey was a lighting company in it's own right or they did the design work for the fixture. Lee did not own the company that long nor did any real innovations to them by my memory. Might be wrong, could be as you say referring to a specific brand of Fresnel fixture, but normally people would call them by the manufacturer. Such as a NSI light board not a Leviton light board. Much less a Leviton Fresnel now that they own NSI who owns Colortran.

    Never heard back from tech babe on the answer to the question however...
     
  5. mbenonis

    mbenonis Wireless Guy Administrator Premium Member

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    I'll ask techybabe to take a look at the thread again next time I talk to her.
     
  6. dj_illusions

    dj_illusions Active Member

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    hey ship... whats a candy question?
     
  7. Nephilim

    Nephilim Active Member

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    I could swear it was 'Berkley Colortran'... then again, maybe I was seeing things. :)

    I don't think you can trademark or copyright the word 'Fresnel' because it has fallen into common usage, just like Band-aid and Duct Tape etc.
     
  8. Les

    Les Well-Known Member

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    Well, then again, most of us today know of all ellipsoidals as Lekos, even though it was Strand that copyrighted this one...
     
  9. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Exactually my thoughst on the "Fresnel" fixture. Could be a trade name/brand name but I don't think so. Too little about theater history - the nuts and bolts and story lines written these days. Altman started out as a company by purchasing a train wreck salvage worth of Kliegl gear. That’s the type of history and necessary to pass on info that is missed. Without some of us knowing about the Lekolight trade name, it would also be lost. Thus the chance that Fresnel was forgotten. Or at least the Altman history is what I'm told as opposed to what's on the Altman Website. What's true, don't know.

    Anyway.. Candy Questions. I have a Halloween candy bucket hanging off my work table. To get a piece of candy, you needed to answer a question or at least learn about something. The big boss thought it a really good idea, but in the end it was more pain in the rear and literally force feeding knowledge to tech people than it was worth. It’s now the electrical tape dispenser. Candy Questions only lives here given the 600+ questions I have pre-typed for the above candy bar questions. That is or was until the point I became frustrated by it’s lack of interest and now only occasionally post a new question. At least than I could hold pogie bate over them even if I had to purchase it or go to the boss to fund it. Why is there no candy? There is no candy because you did not buy any... Anyway on Control Booth, it’s hard out of several hundred members just to get a dozen votes, much less for anyone to post a further question to keep it running.

    Strand did not copywrite Leko, Century did. Strand just retained the name after they bought Century out than let the company die out or get bought out by another company to go away afterwards. Forget what ever happened to Century. That's given Kliegl was not the origional owner of the name see above.
     
  10. Les

    Les Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, Century/Strand....Same difference to me.
    I wasn't alive thirty years ago like some people.
    I'm only a senior in high school... Most people don't even know
    how to properly spell Fresnel, or the French history behind it.lol.
     
  11. Radman

    Radman Well-Known Member

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    At the Playhouse some cycs are Berkly/Colortran, some Lekos are Strand Century. At school we actually have some original pure Century fresnels. I really want to go on a shopping spree, but were on tight budget. We spend what is leftover from what we earn. I'm spending aprox. $300 on MY FAIR LADY. I'm going out on a limb and buying a tophat, a barndoor, and tieline on top of expendables. Enough said.

    I think it's too bad the new SL is flimsy, they look so nice.

    I didn't know NSI owned Colortran. The more you know...
     
  12. Les

    Les Well-Known Member

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    It really is too bad about the flimsy SL. They are some good looking instruments. I feel like they could really become a staple in the theatrical lighting industry, like the S-4, if they just reexamine some of their construction techniques. I think their design concept is good, but the places where they strayed from other manufacturers is where the problems start. Their lamps seem to seat just fine... No problems there. The instruments' optical systems seem pretty awesome... Have you seen their reflectors!!! The pattern/accessory gate seems sufficient, and the yoke seems to hold the instrument well...
    This is where the problems are... Now, most manufacturers opt to attach the lamp holder assy. with a brass screw or something of the like. O, the SL's, you turn them right or left to 'click' them on or off... Lefty loosie, righty tighty... Sometimes they freeze. It may just be the lamp holders, or it could be the fixture, I don't know; but it is very unpredictable. When these things stick, it can be hard on the lamp to get them on or off... Not to mention throwing it off your target. So those need to be looked at.
    The other problem is how they decided to allow the instrument to rotate a full 360 degrees. This is a great idea but needs refinement. The instrument is held in a diecast ring which is attached to the yoke. So the yoke sort of cradles the instrument. So the instrument really isn't attached to the yoke at all. But there is some kind of weird stuff that they use a bushings/bearings that goes in between the yoke/fixture. It looks like chunks of rosin or something... I don't know, but this stuff falls out every once in a while. I would love to see some ball bearings in there. The other problem is with the retaining screw. It is found on this ring and screws through it, putting pressure in the instrument itself. I don't know what it is, but on some lights this screw does not lock the instrument in place, and it is free to rotate. Another annoyance is some weird oil-like substance that appears around this mechanism on some lights. Now it doesn't drip, and isn't neccessarily wet to the touch, but it does look like someone sprayed it with WD-40. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't LEKOS not supposed to LEAK?
     
  13. r0cko815

    r0cko815 Member

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    Uhh...mBenonis1, ur not the lighting techie here, that would be me and techiebabe, we know what were doin, just stick to ur sound that ur doing, me and techiebabe got lighting under control
     
  14. BenGranucci

    BenGranucci Member

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    ummm...There's more than one lighting TECHNICIAN here (sorry...I hate the word "techie" with a passion). Perhaps you should be more open minded to those who wish to diversify into many departments (that or you don't know who you're talking about) Second, mBenonis1 isn't professing a deep knowledge of lighting, just an intention to pass along some info.

    <<reaches for fire extinguisher to put out FLAMES>>
     
  15. digitaltec

    digitaltec Active Member

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    You guys are a bunch of HS tech's fighting over who is a lighting tech. ha ha ha, that has to be the funniest thing I have seen on this forum.

    Everyone is intitled to their views and opinions. This is a public forum. If you have a question or comment, post it. We dont need to sit here and say im right and your wrong. Not everyone is on the same skill level. If your a lighting tech then cool. But we dont have to push people away because you have to be controlling. Rocko & techiebabe might be good tech's but they are not the only ones. There is also nothing wrong with sound people asking lighting questions, etc. This is a LEARNING forum. We need minds for molding :lol: , not fighting. Eveyone has different experince and uses differnt equipment. Let's just keep it cool guys and girls.
     
  16. Radman

    Radman Well-Known Member

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    Rockooooo's moooderrrrrn liiiiiife...(rocko's modern life)!
     

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