Control/Dimming What's the link between Architectural & Entertainment control?

Brentgi

Active Member
I'll say that I'm mostly an amateur when it comes to lighting and the like. I've had no formal training, no certifications, no degree when it comes to lighting/design. However, I've been around stage & theatrical lighting since I was in high school (and that's around the same time that Google came around), and have always been involved with lighting systems in churches that I have worked/volunteered at.

With the exception of an NSI/Leviton system that was installed at a previous venue (which I hated - the system, not the venue), I've always been at places where either the house lighting was controlled by the console, or it was it's own seperate system all together.

Where the NSI system was concerned, there was a Luma-Net zone controller on the wall (http://www.leviton.com/en/products/n0400-cp0). I remember the programing was done at the switch and it was wired directly to the dimmer pack. Worked well because we could power off the console and if the cleaning person needed into the space, they could use the wall switch.

Well, times have changed...

Currently our venue is using DMX controlled house lighting (LED fixtures). The console must remain on at all times regardless of whether or not it's being used. I have wired a contact closure push-button switch to the outside of the booth door that triggers a macro on EOS Element to turn lights on and off. This is generally is ok, but after reading some other posts and getting a message at 7am saying the lights wouldn't come on (someone had zeroed the GM, which I consequently disabled), I decided to investigate what it would take to set the console free of the burden of controlling the house lights.

So far, the only real idea I have is to try my hand at building some sort of controller with Arduino. However, in my mind, there's got to be a simple piece of equipment that will do what I'm asking. Right? I'm just not sure what that would be.

Your input on the matter is appreciated.
 
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There are a number of products that are a lot less complex than a lighting board that are designed to sit between your system and the theatrical console and work 24/7/365. ETC has Paradigm, Doug Fleenor has the Preset 10 and we (Pathway Connectivity) have Vignette. There are others too.
Vignette allows you to define Zones and put them on sliders or buttons or you can snapshot entire looks from the Eos and play them back. There is a fair amount of data and videos on the website showing you typicals and features. Bets of luck with your search.
 
Most of the systems I've designed include the house (and work) lights with stage, with two separate control options - console and architectural (unison, paradigm, vision net, premeire, etc.) - set to highest takes precedence. Have on occasion shut down console control at owners request; and have provided a button to lock out architectural control - which I don't like to do.
Helpful?
 
I call it a processor and it depends. Some systems - like the Pathway one - I think has all the smarts in the station. Fleenor also. ETC Paradigm is in a processor which is sometimes a separate cabinet and sometimes a module in a rack. Their Echo is distributed in the stations.

Without knowing what you have and what you want to control, it's hard to say this or that.
 
As Rob and Bill so nicely mentioned, we (Doug Fleenor Design) have the Preset family of products that might work for you. I'm not super familiar with Pathway and ETC's version, but I can give a quick description of our product.

The Preset 10 Architectural is a box that sits on the DMX line between the console and your fixtures. It "listens" on the line, and only takes over once your console is no longer outputting a signal. To set it up, you'd install it in line, set up a "look" (like all house lights on), and record that look into one of the buttons. You can set up 10 different looks (although # 10 is typically "off"). Each button saves a snapshot of a single DMX universe's levels. It also comes in portable, but facilities such as yours tend to prefer the Architectural version.

If that's all super confusing I apologize. Trying to type with a head cold isn't super fun. If you have any questions, please give us a call and we'll be happy to answer them! (888) 4-DMX-512 aka (888) 436-9512.
 
Going with Pathway, Fleenor, or ETC will be a more robust solution than Arduino. They are all proven long term reliable. I have worked in venues with ETC architectural systems where the system hasn't had to be maintained for a number of years. I love Arduino, but it is much more likely to need resets and maintenance in the short term as you likely won't be able to do the robust systems testing that the other devices have been through. Base Arduinos also have to dedicate a significant amount of processing time to DMX signals, meaning that other operations can get cut off, or interfere with the DMX. I know other people have had a lot of success implementing self designed Arduino systems, but in my opinion if it is something that needs to be operated while you are not available it is better to go with a proven option.
 
Whose dimmers and what era or generation? There could be other economical options. IIRC Sensor use to have an ETC Link data line that allowed push button stations to recall a few presets stored in the CEM. I see the current Sensor3 has an option of "Sensor3 Backup Stations" which guess will get you same. And the programmable "panic" might do all you need. This will leave the console out of it - or allow it to be off or not calling any levels. What I don't know is if you'll a station by the console to take away the push button control or it that is programmable as in if console then console else station. ETC probably has that - they are smart like that - but others may not.

Limited function - 8 or 16 or 64 presets.
 
I've been intrigued lately with an ETC Echo Flex solution, with a wireless component it's very good for retrofits. Usually the button stations need power (low voltage) and to have the DMX line pass through them. Some allow for other wiring methods but that can be a major part of the cost in a retrofit. (Interactive Technologies "Scene Station" also has a wireless feature, but it too needs power and therefore wires.)

Echo Flex has a DMX recorder device that can respond to a completely wireless switch. (battery less too!) Place the DMX piece where convenient and stick the switch or switches anywhere you like. I haven't had a chance to install this stuff yet but I'm pretty confident it will work as advertised. The EnOcean power harvesting technology has been adopted by a huge range of major companies world wide. (Honeywell, Osram, Hubbell, Watt Stopper, etc.)
 
To echo, but simplify, what others have said above, several manufacturers make solutions for your problem. They amount to a teeny DMX console that splices between the full desk and the dimmer rack, and can be told to memorize the current look on a preset button.

Some send the selected saved look only when no DMX is coming in; some HTP merge the incoming DMX from the desk. The former optimizes for "don't accidentally step on my show", the latter for "don't block architectural users if someone accidentally leaves the desk on"; there's no 100% solution in both direction that's not subject to error.

[Edit:]If you want LTP, you're probably going to have to find a merging box that is designed specifically to do that. I'm not aware of one, but I am young and not much travelled.

Most have a separate connection for remote panels that can be placed around the house to give "every door" control.
 
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Thanks all for the information. Seem's like a bit much for a retrofit application -- having to purchase a processor AND wall stations. I like the idea of the Fleenor box, but I'd rather have something in an LTP mode, so as if the console was left on the architectural station would still have some control.

In other news, we should be breaking ground on a new space soon, so I'll make sure to push for a hybrid system.
 
They don't all require a processor, some are just a DMX A/B switch and memory. The more capable ones take more brains and tend to be more expensive.

A Fleenor Pre10-A2 does merging in the unit. Fleenor, Pathway and several others make DMX mergers that will do either HTP or LTP. With priority settings a sACN based system could also do that. (everything to the network and extract the results at the dimmers) Some dimmer racks to merging with multiple inputs.

Don't jump to pricing conclusions too quickly, some of these systems can be several hundred, some several thousand. As I said earlier, installation may be the biggest cost.

If you're about to break ground then the choices are probably already made and the contracts written. If you do get a chance to look at plans, as functional questions: How does the custodian turn on just the work lights? How do I kill the work lights from the booth? How do I . . .
 
I've worked on several installation recently that combine a Acuity/Pathway DXT DMX Merger/Splitter and an Acuity Fresco Touchscreen controller.
 
If you're about to break ground then the choices are probably already made and the contracts written. If you do get a chance to look at plans, as functional questions: How does the custodian turn on just the work lights? How do I kill the work lights from the booth? How do I . . .

Excellent thoughts. I should've been more clear. The ground breaking is still several months away. Still in the design phase and I *SHOULD* be able to have some say in what we'll need. I'm trying to also do my homework up front because I don't think that a consultant is being hired specifically for lighting (I think I'll actually ask about this).
 

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