The above Ad will no longer appear after you Sign Up for Free!

What's wrong in these pictures?

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by derekleffew, Dec 31, 2007.

  1. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,425
    Likes Received:
    2,814
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    EDIT, 12/31/07: Attempting to be a good moderator, and move off-topic posts from here to this new thread. This thread is NOT intended to insult or offend [user]charcoaldabs[/user], (far from it), and I felt he and other CB members could learn from his pictures.

    Well, at least he ([user]gafftaper[/user]) won't be trying to hang 1KL fixtures from his hanging positions.:) But he'd still have issues with a 410 or 405!
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2007
  2. Charc

    Charc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,850
    Likes Received:
    46
    What wrong in these pictures?

    I have to go in to school now to get a few numbers, I'll snap some pics of my catwalks for comparison.
     
  3. Charc

    Charc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,850
    Likes Received:
    46
    Re: Tricks for storing gear in catwalks?

    Er, so yea, there are some key differences, but from first impressions, I think I like mine better.

    (P.S. Someone already gave the pride-of-place speech, last time I posted pics... so I should cleaned before I took these, or something.)

    Edit:
    Note the lighting that comes from both fluro work lights, and small rope-light style lighting along the floor.
    The grating is pretty small, but even so gel frames and other objects can fit through, however most of the section of catwalk are over sound tiles, which catches anything that would fall through. Fall limiters along each lighting position, midrails, and nice distribution. (What's that called? raceway?) Plus netting, emergency power loss and fire alarm lighting. (Appears that we have two separate systems in the building.) as well as fire extinguishers... classy.


    Picture#1: H.R. Catwalk
    [​IMG]
    Picture#1 above.

    Picture#2: 4th AP Slot to the left, sound tiles to the right, leading to back of house with the DMX run on top running under the gaff.

    [​IMG]
    Picture#2 above.

    Picture#3: 4th AP Slot

    [​IMG]
    Picture#3 above.

    Picture#4: H.L. Catwalk Stairs

    [​IMG]
    Picture#4 above.

    Picture#5: H.L. Catwalk

    [​IMG]
    Picture#5 above.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2008
  4. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,425
    Likes Received:
    2,814
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Re: Tricks for storing gear in catwalks?

    Yes, it's called a raceway. I see so many things wrong in those pictures I don't even know where to begin. I'll sleep so much better when you get into college. How long is that? Two and a half years? I need Ambien!
     
  5. Charc

    Charc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,850
    Likes Received:
    46
    Re: Tricks for storing gear in catwalks?

    18 months. (Prescription sleep aids, ha, always have some in my house.)

    Uh okay what's wrong:

    That fallen piece of gel I see in the first picture.

    The way the cables are laid out as trip hazards.

    The fact that the fire extinguishers aren't secured.

    (Not pictured: The IC cable running up the ladder, as to be a trip hazard.)

    The fact that we cut through the netting.

    The dimples in the pipe, and portion of pipe visible where an inch or two of paint has been scraped off, creating a future structural weak point, due to oxidation. (It's all over the place!)
     
  6. JD

    JD Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,993
    Likes Received:
    1,197
    Location:
    North Wales PA
    Re: What wrong in these pictures?

    Lets see... Let me try to add... tripping already covered...
    (good mental exercise!)

    1) Don't see anything securing the Lycian on casters.
    2) Nasty cable at the connector plugged in #113
    3) Hot end of the ERS pushed up against the netting...
    4) Don't see safety cables on all the lights, but they may be out of view.

    Of course, compared to a rock and roll road show, looks like a pleasure! (Walking trusses 30 feet up comes to mind!)

    Well, off to the NYE party! See everyone in 2008!
     
  7. Charc

    Charc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,850
    Likes Received:
    46
    Not only is the cap against the netting, I'll have you know I have all my 6x22s lamped with 1,000W FELs. :mrgreen:

    Re: Cable at 113.
    Yea, probably 40%-60% of the connectors in the theatre (not including the new raceways) have improper / no strain relief. The cable at 113 should be fixed, but on most other connectors, it is the "thin" type jacket/cable, and there no longer is that little plastic piece in the connector to old on to something that thin, so it just won't old the jacket in.

    Edit: Most should have safeties, we have just about enough. Some safeties in better conditions than others. I've had to make some judgement calls in which instruments get better safeties, and which don't get any at all.
     
  8. JD

    JD Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,993
    Likes Received:
    1,197
    Location:
    North Wales PA
    Can't say too much there! I once crammed a FEL in a 3.5 leko for an effect! ;)

    Hee hee! You guys!
    Now I really do have to go to the party!
     
  9. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,425
    Likes Received:
    2,814
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    By "'thin' type jacket/cable" do you mean SJO? Mu understanding is it shouldn't be used for anything over 3', and then only for twofers and break-ins/outs.

    You know all those 3/4" pieces of 12/3 SO outer jacket you're going to have when putting on new connectors, or re-terminating the old ones? Save those, they're like gold! Make one cut linearly, then put that around smaller cables and especially the fiberglass sleeving of fixtures. Some will not approve, but it has always worked for me. I'll admit a better option is to purchase "that little plastic piece in the connector to hold on to something that thin, so it just won't hold the jacket in." Union Connector part#20-2P&G-SR9 (bag of 100).

    On your 12/3 cable, too much length of the outer jacket was stripped away. I said 3/4" above but that may not be accurate for your brand of connectors. The older square UnionConnectors that need the ring flag terminals required, IIRC, a 5/8" strip, then cut the ground shorter, as it uses the straight terminal.
    There really is an art to affixing pin connectors, and many tricks and tips one picks up from experience. Now I've gone and hijacked the thread again, shame on me.
     
  10. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

    Messages:
    12,569
    Likes Received:
    2,578
    Occupation:
    Theater Manager & T.D.
    Location:
    Seattle, Washington
    Is the Lycian plugged in with a 14 gauge cable?

    PIG TALES... I'm jealous. I wish I had pig tales.
     
  11. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,425
    Likes Received:
    2,814
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    I believe the thin 14/3 cable you're seeing is what comes connected to the Lycian, it's then plugged into a 12/3 SO, in picture #5.

    Pig tales are nice, but I usually prefer the neater appearance of flush mount receptacles. Appearance above function. Depends on the proximity of the hanging position to the raceway. Sometimes if you twofer adjacent fixtures, with a pigtail you can have too much cable to deal with. In pictures 1 & 5, what genius decided to spec/install the raceways so the pigtails hang on the floor?

    Picture #3: I'm surprised no one has asked why ckt. #184 comes between 112 and 113. One of the first thing I noticed, then figured it out.
     
  12. Charc

    Charc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,850
    Likes Received:
    46
    Hint: There are two repeated circuits (i.e. CKT CKT CKT 189 CKT CKT CKT 190 CKT CKT CKT 190 CKT CKT CKT 189 CKT CKT CKT) (Not an actual representation of what I have, but it conveys the distribution well) on each lighting position. Forgetting they were repeated caused me to trip the breaker on the dimmer once, when circuiting PAR56-500W MFLs.

    Flush-mount would be aesthetically pleasing, but I think in this circumstance pig-tales (pig-tails?) are better suited for the space.

    Derek nailed the info on the lycian.

    Derek, the same genius that did all the work. I think the idea was that... no I don't know. While we're on the subject of raceway placement, I noticed on the 4 AP slots, 3 raceways are installed in one orientation, and 1 is installed backwards. (Most visible in Picture 3, between 112 and 184. The one installed "backwards" has the orientation reversed. The one upside is, as visible in picture 3, the raceways installed "forwards" have the pig-tales resting on the pipe. Which is sort of weird.)

    Referencing Pic 2 & 3, what is keeping that raceway up, as opposed to rotating down? It looks to me like the only thing securing it is the the duct thing where all the circuits come in. (Conduit?), unless those U bolts are really tight, I guess.
     
  13. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,425
    Likes Received:
    2,814
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Charc, this is a good learning exercise for all. We've already seen your light plot, why don't you add a link, in the same post as the pictures? Also, could you edit the post, next to where I've added the picture numbers, saying something like: "AP1, looking from HL Catwalk..."?

    Best seen in picture #5, the "duct" is known as flexible metallic conduit, a "Kleenex" type name is "BX." Post enough pictures and we'll teach you everything about your theatre's nomenclature. Hopefully then you can teach someone else, before you graduate. Most high school students learn more about tech from upperclassmen than from their teachers, I know I did.

    Also post a pic pf your unusable AP4, so we can help you figure out a way to hang and focus lights there, in the safest possible manner.
     
  14. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

    Messages:
    12,569
    Likes Received:
    2,578
    Occupation:
    Theater Manager & T.D.
    Location:
    Seattle, Washington
    I like it when the piggies tell me stories. :eh:
     
  15. mbandgeek

    mbandgeek Active Member

    Messages:
    480
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Wouldn't Pigtailed sockets provide better stress relief on both the socket and the plug, compared to a flush mount receptacle? Also, With stage pin connectors, wouldn't it cause the connections to unplug themselves from gravity?
     
  16. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

    Messages:
    12,569
    Likes Received:
    2,578
    Occupation:
    Theater Manager & T.D.
    Location:
    Seattle, Washington
    As long as you keep your stage pins properly split with a pin splitter you'll never have a problem with connectors falling out. The big thing that the "piggie tales" do is give you the opportunity to move the instrument a few inches one way or the other. The tail on the instrument is not very long and you are really restricted in how far you can reach.
     
  17. Charc

    Charc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,850
    Likes Received:
    46
    Re: Gaff, the 3rd party smiley you used made that post. However, I'll not I was following your lead, post 10.

    Re: 4th AP. I think we're misunderstanding each-other slightly on the un-usability here. The issue is that with the position of the pipe in relation to the sound tiles, you can't get any useable angle. We could get the "orchestra pit", aka the front row, when removed, but that's about it. As you can see, my "genius-ness" was able to squeeze one instrument into that position, the 1KL6 pictured in #3. It is shooting through the gap in the two section of tiles. My understanding is that a vertical drop-down extender of perhaps 12" would remedy this problem. I've got authorization to buy one, to check it out. I think I'll end up recommending the city theatrical model from the internet. The local theatre supply guy had not heard of a vertical extender, after clearing up some confusion as to wether or not I wanted a sidearm, he checked his Altman catalogue, told me he could sell them, and gave me some dodgy info on lengths that I no longer remember.

    Re: pig-tails (?). My understanding is that properly split pins should not be overcome by gravity. If my connector starts falling out I reach for my PinSplitterII.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 1, 2008
  18. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

    Messages:
    12,569
    Likes Received:
    2,578
    Occupation:
    Theater Manager & T.D.
    Location:
    Seattle, Washington
    Not a 3rd party smiley... look deeper into your options young Charc... there's a whole party waiting for you. :discoball::dance::discoball:
     
  19. jonhirsh

    jonhirsh Active Member

    Messages:
    837
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario and Valencia, California
    What about the random retractable life line by the follow spot. If you need one there you should have one every where else.
    JH
     
  20. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,425
    Likes Received:
    2,814
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    jonhirsh, look at Picture #1 again. The retractable vertical fall arrest is on a horizontal cable with pulley, allowing it to slide anywhere along the catwalk. Must be difficult for training purposes only allowing one person at a time in the catwalk. But since Charc always works alone, not a problem.:drool::hearts::pizza:
    See, a "tail-down" is what I was thinking also, but wanted a picture. For the price of a 36" piece of 1/2" threaded rod and two 1/2" nuts and a 1/2" Nyloc Nut, (around $10 max), from the local hardware store, you could have built this yourself, and experimented with the exact length you need. But since you and gafftaper seem to feel you have go the most expensive route, I'm not going to tell you how I'd do it now.:boohoo:

    Again, I'll ask, please label the pictures so we know what positions at which we are looking.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2008

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice