Which came first - the light plot or the run-through???

[tdtastic]

Do you wait to put your light plot in the air only after a lighting designer can see a run-through of the show? Or do you ask your LD's to design a plot for the set design, not the blocking, and get lights in the air before a set goes up?

For years, our theatre company has waited until a few weeks prior to opening to get a plot in the air. It allows our LD's to watch a run first, but it's hell on our schedule. It's one of those 'this is how we've always done it' things. We often end up crawling over scenery to hang and cable -- it slows us down and still leaves a lot of work to be done on the scenery during tech week (our same crew work as carps and electricians so we have to break off and deal with lighting). When I was working bigger shows in the city lighting install came first, for many reasons of course. We are lucky enough to live in our own space - mostly ours - which means a lot of set construction happens in place on the stage. Outside demands on the space's calendar are really forcing me to rethink how we put up shows, so that I might shave a week or two off of our stage time for other groups.

Pros to hanging first - much easier and quicker to hang and cable without walls in the way; could turn a four week build/lx schedule into a three week one to open up the venue more throughout the year

Cons to hanging first - lighting designer will have to deal with more surprises with blocking; plot may have to be overhung to accommodate changes, LD's contract period would be longer, would require much better communication between director and design team on the front end.

What are the pros and cons in your opinion??? I'm talking to designers AND electricians here.

 

[theatricalmatt]

You're missing a few vital steps.

First, before anything else, the director and the design team get together to talk about the show. Most likely they've already had individual, informal conversations before officially signing on as part of the team. They may already have a few of their own ideas for how to make certain moments happen on stage, but this first concept meeting helps solidify ideas between team members to see what works and what the group wants to commit to.

If I've worked in the venue before, I often have an internalized 'base plot' that I'm tweaking during this conversation, as well as making adjustments based on budget or time limitations.

Then, the scenic designer submits a design to the group. (Not a sketch, a design.) Assuming no red flags are immediately raised, then I begin drafting the lighting plot based on the design given and other factors mentioned. This gets shared with the design team when it's ready, so the lighting supervisor can order expendables and start soliciting rental bids.

For the production team, the space gets cleared and prepped, then the lighting plot gets hung, then the set gets installed, and then the lights are focused. Can't do it any other way; it just doesn't work.

 

[DaveySimps]

Sounds like your situation is twofold. First, the fact that you are building in your perofrmance space will dictate a lot of your process, as opposed to a producing entity that builds in a shop and has a load in period that can be better paced post light hang. Second, sounds like communication can be improved on the front end. That is probably your best bet. If designers and the director are truly collaborating BEFORE all the decisions are made, that will drastically improve things. You might find that your particular logistics mean that a director and a design process may not be as flexible under this paradigm. There may be changes that cannot logistically be accommodated due to the lack of time in a production calendar, or due the necessity to share staff between departments. It really sounds like your entire company could benefit from an ongoing conversation about the entire production process, where all players can contribute their voice.

~Dave

 

[ship]

Certainly see rehearsals as much as possible while doing the design process and production meetings. Coordinate by that time especially what lights would be needed above the stage in it going static once the set is in and hard to change. But normally during the design process in production meeting, the look, the who is where and what's needed should be fairly figured out by design before the set's installed.

Again as with above, before any rehearsals on set, you should already know were everything on set will be and talent at any momoment should be in lighting them following production meetings. And again sitting thru a rehearsal even with a blank stage or rehearsal room is very useful.

Here I thought this was a theater history question in seeing the heading. Good term paper question as to how it was done say 100 years ago .

 

[tdtastic]

You all make good points. We hire professional designers and directors and they of course collaborate months out on the front end. I think it really is a product of living in our own space for so long -- we've just fallen into this pattern of hanging the rig so late in the game. I remember doing it that way in college theatre. But then in the real world you're loading a show in from scratch and the lights go first because that just makes sense. Our LD's spend loads of time at rehearsals and get to see the blocking and continue to collaborate with directors. I guess what I'm affirming is that a lighting designer should be able to create a plot based on set design information and preliminary collaborations with the other creatives. Watching rehearsals and taking blocking notes informs the cueing. Right??? Of course some additions or moves are to be expected before focus starts; sometimes there are unforeseen problems once scenery is installed, or a new idea comes up later in rehearsals. I think I'm about to make some big changes around here so I appreciate the input. I think I can better maximize my crew and time if we just get all that crap in the air first.

 

[TheaterEd]

I go two ways on this as a designer. I really enjoy when I am able to observe rehearsals and build the plot as I go with moments that stand out to me, but I also have done side jobs that just did not pay enough to justify that time commitment. In those cases, I wouldn't see a rehearsal until tech week and my plot would be hung before the set went up to get in the way. That took more conversation with the director, but those designs were just as effective.

 

[ship]

So kind of like the current text books say is how it should work and works often for large audience/stage lighting design.
.
Cannot find the hitler in a chair one act play I once designed and won Chicago credits for lighting on, but in as above seeing the rehearsal - above design meetings for the limited store front theater one act set... what was most useful was seeing the rehearsal.

Much no doubt depends on the size and scale of the production and set. Sometimes such as in "Riders to the Sea" there was different place to mourn desinated in set/lighting design. This fortold where the talent could be in acting the scene for climbing that set piece hill - designated lighting position.

As above the Hitler piece, and another where the sun was baking down on some people waiting for a bus in 1.2Kw lighting source baking down on the talent from a single direction... it was more watching rehearsals and with limited set to get in the way of designing around what rehearsals produced.

Can't do that with Oklahoma' or most main stage shows... Depends on what level of show you are designing as to what you can design/production meeting pre-figure out, verses the amount of rehersals you need in figuring out how to light it.

Design is an art in seeing what you did, mostly in end result thru viewing the audience and once in a while getting a good review citation or award. Did it work??? what you did? Always in question until you see what the audience sees of your part in the overall production. Sometimes nothing seen uncomfortable by the audience is also ok in an ok production overall.

 

[DELO72]

Do you wait to put your light plot in the air only after a lighting designer can see a run-through of the show? Or do you ask your LD's to design a plot for the set design, not the blocking, and get lights in the air before a set goes up?

For years, our theatre company has waited until a few weeks prior to opening to get a plot in the air. It allows our LD's to watch a run first, but it's hell on our schedule. It's one of those 'this is how we've always done it' things. We often end up crawling over scenery to hang and cable -- it slows us down and still leaves a lot of work to be done on the scenery during tech week (our same crew work as carps and electricians so we have to break off and deal with lighting). When I was working bigger shows in the city lighting install came first, for many reasons of course. We are lucky enough to live in our own space - mostly ours - which means a lot of set construction happens in place on the stage. Outside demands on the space's calendar are really forcing me to rethink how we put up shows, so that I might shave a week or two off of our stage time for other groups.

Pros to hanging first - much easier and quicker to hang and cable without walls in the way; could turn a four week build/lx schedule into a three week one to open up the venue more throughout the year

Cons to hanging first - lighting designer will have to deal with more surprises with blocking; plot may have to be overhung to accommodate changes, LD's contract period would be longer, would require much better communication between director and design team on the front end.

What are the pros and cons in your opinion??? I'm talking to designers AND electricians here.

You need to know the blocking to design a light plot effectively. (key word is effectively). Otherwise you are just throwing crap against the wall and hoping it sticks. That's a shitty way to design a show.

 

[MRW Lights]

You need to know the blocking to design a light plot effectively. (key word is effectively). Otherwise you are just throwing crap against the wall and hoping it sticks. That's a shitty way to design a show.

I have to fairly strongly disagree here... I can light A LOT of a show without ever knowing the blocking. If there's a door, they're going to go through the door... if there's a window there should be light in the window, if the set is a room they'll probably act in that room, if it's set outside it should look like it's outside. Most of my lighting design is going to come from the script and the set, plus input from the directors vision... the people will do those things and be in those places. Sometimes I don't get to see a run through of a show until I'm flown in the week of tech. Sometimes I might get a tape of a rehearsal or maybe get lucky enough to be flown out for a design meeting at some point and be able to catch a run through of a rehearsal, but it's rare. You should have an idea of what the show will look like long before ever getting to a run through and should have a decent to rough draft of beats and scenes in a cue breakdown.

 

[blueeyesdesigns]

I've submitted a lot of plots without being able to see a run through first. As others have said here, communication is important. Talk through any detailed, intricate, or complicated sequences as much as you can ahead of time. In the days of cell phone video, some one in the rehearsal room can easily record sequences you might have questions about. (I suggest plying them with donuts and/or their adult beverage of choice.) I build the plot with flexibility in mind- avoid two-fer'ing or patching together units in washes areas where I might need isolation, add an extra unit here and there even if the director swears they'll never go that far stage left. You know they will. I add circuited spare fixtures to electrics and grids where I know it might be tricky to get something up later to catch that one moment *just right*. I'll even go so far as to avoid hanging over set pieces where I know focusing is going to be next to impossible.

It's not an unreasonable ask to get it earlier, and it sounds like it would save a lot of headaches and lot work in unsafe conditions. After all, as we all know from our OSHA training, the best way to deal with a hazard is to eliminate it.

 

[Starr T.]

So no one here works with Directors that change blocking??? Yes, FLEXIBILITY is key, and Communication! (did someone say Teamwork?)

 

[RonHebbard]

So no one here works with Directors that change blocking??? Yes, FLEXIBILITY is key, and Communication! (did someone say Teamwork?)

When plotting washes, odd numbers are your friends; NEVER plot, hang, and circuit washes without a center area.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[TorrieS]

of course, sometimes you can't get a run-through until fairly late in the process...even a partial.

 

[ship]

Change of blocking is possible especially on what level you work at in the hopes that "ART" as the goal is to be made. Noting some above that pre-plan for that if they cannot be there.

Really depends on the level of production. If all those designing remotely are in town to instead see where the production was going.... But mostly it's all about production meetings before hanging the plot. At some point, after locked into blocking... no it should not be changed unless serious problem.

 

[macsound]

I've worked with some designers who designed an entire plot around watching runthroughs and how the show seemed like it would look based on the rehearsal space. They were totally burned when the director changed blocking because the set piece was bigger/smaller than they thought or someone taped the reh room in meters instead of feet or whatever.

Because there's always the need for flexibility, always design based on standard practices - like Ron said - odd number of sections. Don't assume you can skip downwash upstage right because there's supposed to be a set piece there. You can always remove a channel from your group in programming but it's much harder to run off to rent an extra few fixtures because you under-budgeted.

I also see this alot in people excited to use moving lights - they under budget conventional fixtures thinking the moving lights can take up the slack, only to realize they can't get there in time or the fade looks wonky or whatever.

 

[RonHebbard]

I've worked with some designers who designed an entire plot around watching runthroughs and how the show seemed like it would look based on the rehearsal space. They were totally burned when the director changed blocking because the set piece was bigger/smaller than they thought or someone taped the reh room in meters instead of feet or whatever.

Because there's always the need for flexibility, always design based on standard practices - like Ron said - odd number of sections. Don't assume you can skip downwash upstage right because there's supposed to be a set piece there. You can always remove a channel from your group in programming but it's much harder to run off to rent an extra few fixtures because you under-budgeted.

I also see this a lot in people excited to use moving lights - they under budget conventional fixtures thinking the moving lights can take up the slack, only to realize they can't get there in time or the fade looks wonky or whatever.

The wiggle light hung up stage will never be a front light, nor will those in FOH ever be a back light. Basic, fundamental, rules and laws still apply.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[What Rigger?]

Is this for Music Theatre West?