Which instruments to light a scrim

Hello, I'm a venue tech that has the opportunity to do my second lighting design in The theatre space I work at.
The set designer and director have a concept for a set basically cut in half stage centre by a scrim with the goal of having everything upstage of the scrim disappear when unused.
We have a black sharks tooth scrim in stock which will be used.
My initial though was to use some of our three cel cyc lights for skimming the cyc from the top on the downstage side for the opaque effect but I've realized that the throw is too big for the job and if there is any kind of barn doors for our cyc lights I don't have them.
I'm wondering what my next best option might be.
The options would be fresnels (with barn doors to control spill), or source 4s with 50 degree lens tubes (biggest I have).
I also have some s4 pars in stock.
Aesthetically my goal is to have a warm color for indoors and a blue for doing a sky.
I also plan on skimming the cyc with clouds etc for texture.
Any thoughts?
I've played with cyc's quite a bit and although I've read a bunch on using a scrim that way I haven't had the opportunity to experiment yet.
Thanks!
Sean
 
Hello, I'm a venue tech that has the opportunity to do my second lighting design in The theatre space I work at.
The set designer and director have a concept for a set basically cut in half stage centre by a scrim with the goal of having everything upstage of the scrim disappear when unused.
We have a black sharks tooth scrim in stock which will be used.
My initial though was to use some of our three cel cyc lights for skimming the cyc from the top on the downstage side for the opaque effect but I've realized that the throw is too big for the job and if there is any kind of barn doors for our cyc lights I don't have them.
I'm wondering what my next best option might be.
The options would be fresnels (with barn doors to control spill), or source 4s with 50 degree lens tubes (biggest I have).
I also have some s4 pars in stock.
Aesthetically my goal is to have a warm color for indoors and a blue for doing a sky.
I also plan on skimming the cyc with clouds etc for texture.
Any thoughts?
I've played with cyc's quite a bit and although I've read a bunch on using a scrim that way I haven't had the opportunity to experiment yet.
Thanks!
Sean
Have you considered a front -light ground row lighting up from the floor and masked by a masking piece such that any light passing through the scrim shoots high above any masking and sight lines?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.
 
Warm, blue and gobos aren't going to read that well on a black scrim. They'll texture, but your not lighting a cyc.

So be aware that it'll be dim texture at that

In general the steeper the angle off 90 degrees front on to the scrim will lessen the spill thru the scrim to whatevers upstage, thus I'd say over head or floor cyc lights as best option
 
Warm, blue and gobos aren't going to read that well on a black scrim. They'll texture, but your not lighting a cyc.

So be aware that it'll be dim texture at that

In general the steeper the angle off 90 degrees front on to the scrim will lessen the spill thru the scrim to whatever's upstage, thus I'd say over head or floor cyc lights as best option
Overhead front lights may bounce off the floor and reflect up on to whatever's U/S of the scrim whereas you may be able to position and mask floor mounted lights so that any spill through the scrim hits whatever is U/S high in the air and out of the audience's sight.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.
 
You want to "wash" the scrim from the highest (or lowest) angle possible to make it go opaque. Cyc Lights or Fresnels from a pipe above and just in front of the scrim would work well. (I'm never tried it from the side with Booms, so I can't speak to how well that would work with the weave of the scrim.) The more "straight on" or flatter your angle of light, the more the light will pass through the shark-weave of the scrim, illuminating the upstage area behind it, and working counter to the affect you are trying to achieve.
 
Yeah, I'll have to punch it pretty hard to get colors to pop.

Warm, blue and gobos aren't going to read that well on a black scrim. They'll texture, but your not lighting a cyc.

So be aware that it'll be dim texture at that

In general the steeper the angle off 90 degrees front on to the scrim will lessen the spill thru the scrim to whatevers upstage, thus I'd say over head or floor cyc lights as best option
 
Yeah, one thing I insisted in was space for booms in the wings. I'm going to be leaning hard on side lighting.
Luckily the upstage area is going to be slightly elevated which will help in that regard.

Overhead front lights may bounce off the floor and reflect up on to whatever's U/S of the scrim whereas you may be able to position and mask floor mounted lights so that any spill through the scrim hits whatever is U/S high in the air and out of the audience's sight.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.
 
I'm just concerned that once I get my cyc lights on a steep enough angle to be effective that they will then be spilling quite a bit in front of, or behind the scrim itself. I'm worried that I'll ending spilling more upstage then is ideal and in the process lighting the specific area I'm trying to hide.
My thought was that with my fresnels (or source 4s even) I can shutter the light exactly to the scrim with no spill and an extreme angle providing the most effective opaque effect.
That being said the cyc lights are great for color mixing and ready to go.


You want to "wash" the scrim from the highest (or lowest) angle possible to make it go opaque. Cyc Lights or Fresnels from a pipe above and just in front of the scrim would work well. (I'm never tried it from the side with Booms, so I can't speak to how well that would work with the weave of the scrim.) The more "straight on" or flatter your angle of light, the more the light will pass through the shark-weave of the scrim, illuminating the upstage area behind it, and working counter to the affect you are trying to achieve.
 
I brought a piece of scrim home and played around with some mini pars.
Although conditions were less than ideal I noticed I can get the opaque effect by lighting from oblique angles on either the upstage or downstage side. I also saw some neat color mixing when I did both at once.
I'm considering trying to use both sides at once with different shades and instruments.
I've been considering putting fresnels on the downstage side shooting down off the pipe the scrim is hung from. They'll be at as sharp an angle as possible with tight barn door cuts. The cyc lights would be on a pipe 2' upstage focused so any spill lands on acting areas downstage instead of the upstage area that's hidden.
This will use up a pile of resources but they're there to use and I think it will give me the most options to create the desired results.
Any thoughts?
 
I'm just concerned that once I get my cyc lights on a steep enough angle to be effective that they will then be spilling quite a bit in front of, or behind the scrim itself. I'm worried that I'll ending spilling more upstage then is ideal and in the process lighting the specific area I'm trying to hide.
My thought was that with my fresnels (or source 4s even) I can shutter the light exactly to the scrim with no spill and an extreme angle providing the most effective opaque effect.
That being said the cyc lights are great for color mixing and ready to go.

Grab a roll of black aluminum foil- several makers- and mask off the spill from your cyc lights. Those will get the best even wash and you can still use other fixtures to create that texture. Unless your lights are hanging above the top of the scrim I don't think you will see any significant spill (from the audience pov) upstage of the scrim.
 
Hello, I'm a venue tech that has the opportunity to do my second lighting design in The theatre space I work at.
The set designer and director have a concept for a set basically cut in half stage centre by a scrim with the goal of having everything upstage of the scrim disappear when unused.
We have a black sharks tooth scrim in stock which will be used.
My initial though was to use some of our three cel cyc lights for skimming the cyc from the top on the downstage side for the opaque effect but I've realized that the throw is too big for the job and if there is any kind of barn doors for our cyc lights I don't have them.
I'm wondering what my next best option might be.
The options would be fresnels (with barn doors to control spill), or source 4s with 50 degree lens tubes (biggest I have).
I also have some s4 pars in stock.
Aesthetically my goal is to have a warm color for indoors and a blue for doing a sky.
I also plan on skimming the cyc with clouds etc for texture.
Any thoughts?
I've played with cyc's quite a bit and although I've read a bunch on using a scrim that way I haven't had the opportunity to experiment yet.
Thanks!
Sean
If you end up using your ellipsoidals for the sharpness of their shutters, you can always improve upon their sharpness with the simple, and cheap, addition of matte black "donuts" in their color frames: The smaller the aperture, the less light but the sharper the cut / less spill. Trade-offs. There are ALWAYS trade-offs and compromises.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.
 
Grab a roll of black aluminum foil- several makers- and mask off the spill from your cyc lights. Those will get the best even wash and you can still use other fixtures to create that texture. Unless your lights are hanging above the top of the scrim I don't think you will see any significant spill (from the audience pov) upstage of the scrim.
If you end up using your ellipsoidals for the sharpness of their shutters, you can always improve upon their sharpness with the simple, and cheap, addition of matte black "donuts" in their color frames: The smaller the aperture, the less light but the sharper the cut / less spill. Trade-offs. There are ALWAYS trade-offs and compromises.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

Neat, good to know.
I have some donuts around and have used them on a couple occasions but never played with different aperture sizes.
 
Neat, good to know.
I have some donuts around and have used them on a couple occasions but never played with different aperture sizes.
I used to fabricate donuts from matte black wrap beginning with a hole I thought would be too small and slowly cutting it larger and larger until I reached a compromise I could live with. Once I had one perfected I copied the sizing for its mates.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.
 

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