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Conventional Fixtures Which lamp for 360Q's?

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by ndtechie05, Sep 21, 2008.

  1. ndtechie05

    ndtechie05 Member

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    Hello all I'm new here. I'm working at a local high school as their LD and we just purchased 10 S4. Most of our stock are the 360Q's which are up to 14 years old. Currently I'm running at 575 FLK. I want to purchase 3 or 4 different new lamps to try in these fixtures so I can replace most of them. I saw that there is the Ushio SPH 575 and also the GE-Thorn. I'm also not opposed to going 750watt if there is a decent lamp out there that will work. Thanks.
     
  2. Footer

    Footer Senior Team Senior Team Premium Member

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    Do a search, look for a post by Ship on 360 and 360Q lamp choices. You will find your answer.
     
  3. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    I second the search. There are many threads and posts on this subject. Try searching for FEL replacements. If you want to look at 750w lamps you should look at the HX-754 or HX-755.
     
  4. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    SPH at 575w is something I'm yet to try.

    For long life and general the Philips GLA is the best option. Other brands of the GLA are good.

    SPH from Ushio verses Osram HPR 575/115v otherwise for base of light should be great but given the HPR is based off the FLK filament it should be less effective for gobos. Good but not as good as a GLC would do.

    In 750w, at 115v, the Philips #6981P is the best lamp out there over the GLD. The long life GLE as type un compared in brand would be interesting to try verses a EHG. A EHG however at 120V seems about in the above 575w/115v high output / less lamp life range in output in past testing.

    About what I can say at this point. The HPR is a darned good lamp and if optimized will out punch a S-4. The GLA on the other hand is the best lamp out there for balance of output and performance.

    HPL and GLA lamps are both TBA for improvement in the coming year.
     
  5. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    [user]ship[/user], you've stated this before, but as I recall, have never been challenged. I am hereby formally challenging you <slaps [user]ship[/user] with white cotton gloves [user]derekleffew[/user] uses while programming>.
    Our First order of business shall be to determine which model of 360Q (4.5x6.5, 6x9, 6x12, 6x16, 6x22) most closely matches the SourceFour™ 50°, 36°, 26°, 19°, 10°, 5°). Since Altman has never published the detail of photometrics that Strand, Colortran, Selecon, and ETC have; the challenge may end right there. But let's continue.
    This Altman document appears to indicate an Altman 360Q-6x12 with GLC lamp at 30' will give a 14' pool with 183 FC.
    This document for the ETC SourceFour-26° (with HPL575/115, mf=0.82) shows at 30', a 13.4' pool, with 161 FC (calculated).
    Ignoring intensity, the two fixtures above appear to be the closest in performance.

    Here's your challenge:
    Select at random from your shop's vast collection, an Altman 360Q-6x12 and an ETC 426. Ensure both are in reasonably good shape, but need not be new. Clean reflectors and lenses as necessary. Install new lamps of your choice, matching voltage, wattage, life, and color temperature as closely as possible in each fixture. Optimize each lamp, following manufacturers' published procedures, for cosine performance. With each fixture mounted 7' high and 30' away from a wall, measure the center beam intensity at +7', and also the pool diameter. Post your findings.
     
  6. Radiant

    Radiant Active Member

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    Our 360Q 6x9's do well with GLA lamps. We use them for front light at about an 18 foot throw, and never need to come up over 60% on the fader. We previously used Eiko FLKs, which seem brighter, but cheaply built and short-lived.

    Is it standard practice to program wearing white cotton gloves? Seems a bit prissy to me.
     
  7. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Depends on the make/model of the console and where its from. Sometimes I wear latex gloves, and some I wouldn't touch without at least these.;)
    [​IMG]
     
  8. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Don't appear very close to me - seems like a second generation fixture out punches a third generation fixture to me. Note the wider beam spread but still more output on the Altman Leko using a GLC lamp.

    Assuming this by logic rubber gloves or what ever type asside - more a question of if a GLC with more refined filament is more efficient than a HPR with FLK filament completing the ellipse in the reflector for an overall beam spread intensity and evenness. For a gobo perhaps not, for a beam of light they say 15 to 20% more efficient than that of a normal FLK I believe. How much more efficient wast the GLC than the FLK - don't think that was published. Not by a huge extent for general lighting, more for pin point source of light.

    (Were you challenging me, stating latest specifications to confirm in a support type way that was a bit in depth one might not catch or was it a typo? :) Would seem already proven if the latest lamp/fixture lamp specifications that it's likely the HPR lamp in a 360Q fixture has more output than that of a similar S-4 Leko.)

    Velvet gloves off or not it would still seem logically the HPR pet lamp or not in having a thing for 360Q era fixtures but not persay liking to bench focus them... that the HPR logically would if similar or equal to the GLC be better than that of a HPL in a 360Q fixture over that of a S-4 fixture.

    I'm sure ETC and or Altman if interested they would not be out of activity would have lots to say about this whole discussion - most possibly valid or slant but sufficient in discussion to debate.

    None the less... my test.

    My findings over the years on the HPR lamp are easy to do a search on over the years. Some question of it was a 3.5Q5 or 3.5Q6 I was testing with at the time. Given its now known I had a 3.5Q6 fixture mixed in with my personal fixtures at the time of the test it's unknown which I was testing. Believe it was a 50 degree S-4 Leko I was testing against at the time about 15 or 20 feet away on a slightly green/white ceiling. Could be wrong on beam spread on that also - been a few years on that. Still, I do remember both beam spread diamaters were similar and you could clearly see that of the HPR lamp's beam inside that of the S-4 both on edge and overall beam intensity.

    Nuff said it was very clear which was brighter no matter what math or factors are calculated in - the 3.5Q fixture was more intense even if the same dia. of circle by a noticable extent.

    Now one than gets into thickness of glass issues. Sure the 3.5Q fixture in testing with only a 3.5" lens would be brighter, it's lens thickness is much less than that of a 4.5" S-4. Than again the origional challenge was with a 4.5" S-4 verses that of a 6" 360Q so would that be fair either in light lost? Fair field especially given the above datta on output in the 6" lens with GLC lamp beating the S-4's 4.5" lens. Within a few hundred Lumens I believe it is one cannot tell the difference between lamps sufficienly I'm told or was that for color temperature which was similar and more the hard edge and better overall balance from edge to main base of light was more as one on the HPR is what I easily remember even inside the beam of the S-4's light beam while looking at the 3.5Q's beam of light inside of it.

    Just a more or less solid beam of light that was more intense in being a solid beam of light at a slightly higher intensity.

    Again, one should do a search into my past posting on testing the HPR lamp a few years ago for origional observations on it and I'm sure they would be similar.

    Overall observation - I was very impressed in a way I as a lamp guy don't often get with the HPR lamp. Not paid rep. for that lamp, just personal observation. Very impressed.

    None the less... got a few AC distros to build for the next few weeks. A lamp test ain't going to happen until at least winter at this point at best. Need to un-rust solid some 360Q's I wound up with that were found in a leaky wet trailer after having been removed from a smoke filled clup that also did fog in the air before I have any servicable 360Q fixtures to test with. My 3.5Q fixtures were also sold off a few years ago. Going to be a little while until I can preform that test though I do have the meters and area to validate such a thing with. Just a question of time for now. Perhaps by winter I'll be able to test all the various similar 360Q type lamps verses that of the S-4 lamps by meter on flat screen at bench focus range. Sounds like a project, keep reminding me of it and if time I'll get it done.
     

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