Which lighting board to get for medium theater

Luna1968

Luna1968

Member
Hi folks!
I have not been on this site in years. This is because I have not had a job as a drama instructor from then until now (teaching English instead,) but here I am, with a theater and a budget. I now need to upgrade the lighting system in our theater. Currently, our theater is very pretty on the surface. It has a nice thrust stage with good seating, a light booth, and a spotlight. The issue is that the designers remodeled it for aesthetics. So, while pretty, it's not very functional. Currently, the lights are recessed lights in the ceiling. There is no light board at all. Originally, there were some can lights extending down, but they are now unused. They would have lit up the stage previously, but with the addition of the thrust stage, they are in the wrong location.
I have to present a budget to the board office this week for new lighting. My first item is a light board. They seem to run from $400 upwards of $2000. WOW! I am seriously overwhelmed. Any advice on how to go about choosing this essential equipment?
 
Actually lighting consoles can run as high as $40,000 or so. $2,000 is on the very low end of the range.
 
I'm no expert, but I'm in kind of the same boat. My son's middle school has an old board that's going to need replacement soon. Reading up on consoles is mind-numbing. Part of the confusion, for me, seems to arise from the fact that there are boards for a variety of applications. What I need (and, maybe, what you need) is a board appropriate to an educational, theatrical environment. That's not the same as, say, a board that a professional would use to support a rock concert. So, just knowing what a board is good for can be a challenge, as some high-priced stuff may not be a good fit for folks like us, while low-end stuff might meet our needs.

I'll be interested in what people recommend.

How many dimmers do you have? (We have 48.)

Are they DMX 512? (Ours are.) If not, what?

How many electric bars do you have? (We have two.)

What's your student level? (I'm in a middle school.)

Here's a big one, at least in my environment: Can you insure that someone on staff will have the duty to know how the board operates and, if you can insure that, how much time can they give to this responsibility?

I say that last is a big one because no one at my son's middle school has the duty to know how their board operates. It was (at the time of purchase), about $3,500, and has a lot of nifty abilities, nearly none of which tend to get used, because: no one knows how it works; the time available in the theater for a volunteer to learn how it works is very limited; it's fairly complicated, especially for those (like me) with very little theater experience; and the manual is written in what appears to be some sort of cryptographic steganography, where long passages of apparently plain language actually conceal the information that would otherwise permit one to know how this inscrutable thing works. As a result, a number of shows have been done with the students simply memorizing the light cues, and ramming the dimmer controls to their appropriate levels as fast as they can. This is somewhat maddening, because the kids are able to learn the programming of cues, fades, and effects, but only if an adult who already knows this stuff can teach it to them. With no one on staff who can do this, a great device is going largely to waste (and deteriorating from rough handling). If your situation is similar, you may want to look for the simplest board you can, just to avoid the result my son's school seems to have experienced.

That's my US$0.02, and worth, at most, both pennies. Will be eager to see what others have to offer you.
 
I think before console, you need to look at lighting positions for mounting the fixtures, power and date infrastructure, then fixtures, and lastly console. Comparatively, the console may be inexpensive item compared to a a couple of LED fixtures or quartz fixtures with dimmer and more wiring. Its hard to generalize and not miss unique problems and opportunities of the space. Also, the console is the piece that will change most often - whether that is between when you begin researching it and when you buy it; or between when you buy the first an when you buy the replacement.
 
Stevens R. Miller said:
I'm no expert, but I'm in kind of the same boat. My son's middle school has an old board that's going to need replacement soon. Reading up on consoles is mind-numbing. Part of the confusion, for me, seems to arise from the fact that there are boards for a variety of applications. What I need (and, maybe, what you need) is a board appropriate to an educational, theatrical environment. That's not the same as, say, a board that a professional would use to support a rock concert. So, just knowing what a board is good for can be a challenge, as some high-priced stuff may not be a good fit for folks like us, while low-end stuff might meet our needs.

I'll be interested in what people recommend.

How many dimmers do you have? (We have 48.)

Are they DMX 512? (Ours are.) If not, what?

How many electric bars do you have? (We have two.)

What's your student level? (I'm in a middle school.)

Here's a big one, at least in my environment: Can you insure that someone on staff will have the duty to know how the board operates and, if you can insure that, how much time can they give to this responsibility?

I say that last is a big one because no one at my son's middle school has the duty to know how their board operates. It was (at the time of purchase), about $3,500, and has a lot of nifty abilities, nearly none of which tend to get used, because: no one knows how it works; the time available in the theater for a volunteer to learn how it works is very limited; it's fairly complicated, especially for those (like me) with very little theater experience; and the manual is written in what appears to be some sort of cryptographic steganography, where long passages of apparently plain language actually conceal the information that would otherwise permit one to know how this inscrutable thing works. As a result, a number of shows have been done with the students simply memorizing the light cues, and ramming the dimmer controls to their appropriate levels as fast as they can. This is somewhat maddening, because the kids are able to learn the programming of cues, fades, and effects, but only if an adult who already knows this stuff can teach it to them. With no one on staff who can do this, a great device is going largely to waste (and deteriorating from rough handling). If your situation is similar, you may want to look for the simplest board you can, just to avoid the result my son's school seems to have experienced.

That's my US$0.02, and worth, at most, both pennies. Will be eager to see what others have to offer you.
Click to expand...

Thank you! It does sounds like we are in the same boat. I have no working lights currently, other than the recessed lights. I literally stand on the stage and manually flip seven lights switches (in between scenes, so I look like an idiot.)
 
BillConnerASTC said:
I think before console, you need to look at lighting positions for mounting the fixtures, power and date infrastructure, then fixtures, and lastly console. Comparatively, the console may be inexpensive item compared to a a couple of LED fixtures or quartz fixtures with dimmer and more wiring. Its hard to generalize and not miss unique problems and opportunities of the space. Also, the console is the piece that will change most often - whether that is between when you begin researching it and when you buy it; or between when you buy the first an when you buy the replacement.
Click to expand...

Thank you! Is there any other option other than bolting a pipe to the ceiling OR using trees? I have a feeling the administration will not appreciate anything that is not "pretty" with all the renovations (this is a rather old theater - built in the 1940s.) With the lights themselves, I am doing some research as well. I imagine about 10 would fit comfortably. I think floodlights would work best?
 
I think you will get appropriate answers to your questions if you would post some pictures of the space and a rough drawing giving dimensions, including heights.
 
I can do that.
IMG_2724.JPG


I can get dimensions. I don't have them right now.
 
Those aisles looks about three seats wide and I see a 4x9x4 seating plan. Typical seat is about 22 inches from center to center, so (4 + 3 + 9 + 3 + 4) x 22" = 506" ~ 42' wide.

Fore-and-aft, typical seating is about 34", and I can see at least 12 rows. Let's guess you've got 20, total, implying 20 x 34" = 680" ~ 57' deep.

Just a guess, but I'm guessing your space is about 40' x 60', more or less, seating about 340 people. If i'm anywhere in the ballpark, we are more in the same boat than I thought. The middle school theater seats 400, and is about 50 x 60. Will continue to follow this thread with great interest.
 
ETC's new color source console is probably the best fit for you, I had a demo of it at USITT and its pretty user freindly. It is also less than $2000 if memory serves, it costs around $1700. It will work with conventional dimmers and LEDs so you've got the best of both worlds.
 
JVTD said:
ETC's new color source console is probably the best fit for you, I had a demo of it at USITT and its pretty user freindly.
Click to expand...

Regarding that one: the spec sheet is a bit confusing to me. It says the CS20 has 20 faders and controls 40 channels. But it also says something about having ten pages. What's puzzling to me is that any DMX board would not have the ability to control all 512 channels by simply grouping them in sets as large as the physical number of faders. For the CS20, I'd expect you could assign any DMX channel you wanted to Fader #1, any channel you wanted to Fader #2, and so on, up to Fader #20, and call all of those assignments, say, "Page 1." Then, on, say, "Page 2," I'd expect you to be able to assign Fader #1 to any DMX channel you wanted (maybe the same one as in Page 1, maybe not), and again all the way up to Fader #20, and keep doing that so, in groups of 20, you could control all the DMX devices that you had. But that's not clearly how it seems to say it works.

Am I missing this in the spec sheet?
 
Don't forget - in my simple minded view - that one "channel" mighty be a bunch of DMX addresses. So it does mean max 40 LED or movers individually controlled - even though they might each have many DMX addresses assigned to one channel. I suspect if you insisted you would not be controlling LED and movers, only dimmers, I'd not recommend this console. But who won't be using LED and movers? Frankly, I'd move up to the 40 or even 40 AV - too cool even if I don't know how I'd use the av features but do want the network connectivity. So 20 and 40 list at $1749 and $2699 respectively; the AV models list at $2999 and $3950.

Push one go button and get leds to flash, a profile with a pattern project lightening bolts, and the sound of thunder all together? Put company logos on the video projector and messages like turn off your cell phones and look around for nearest exits all as part of a single multi step house light cue? I'm envious of these new tools, considering I started with piano boards, border lights, and olivettis and thought a two seen preset with mag amps and lekos was heaven in college.
 
ETC has a helpful video that might help make all the concepts clearer.
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
This is a rough copy of what I am putting together for a presentation to the Superintendent tomorrow afternoon. Does it look like I am on the right track? I am trying to take options from what everyone is saying, and then of course doing my own research (which is overwhelming!) I am going down to the theater today after school to take measurements and check out the old lights. I may be able to refurbish or save them, but I'm not sure what I have yet. They are from before the remodel (maybe 10-15 years ago?) and are hanging backstage with orange extension cords all over them.
 

Attachments

  • Lighting Report.docx
    139.9 KB · Views: 549
Luna1968 said:
Also, can I completely do without a console and control the lights from a laptop computer?
Click to expand...

Mostly, Yes. Modern consoles are computers in specialized boxes with funny keyboards. Newcomers aren't afraid of laptops as they seem to be of consoles. I find them harder to use and less reliable. Can you smoothly mouse over 3 inches when every wiggle and pause is seen on stage? A physical fader is simple and effective!

You'll need more than just software since a laptop doesn't have a DMX port. A DMX output device can just plug into a USB port, or you can go with a network based system and the DMX device closer to the lights. You might be happiest with a tablet solution. My current choice is http://www.visualproductions.nl/products/cuety.html, because the console is actually in the DMX device. The tablet is just a remote control for it. WiFi is not good for 'show critical' control.
 
On the other side of the coin, in a theatrical setting where you're going cue to cue, you don't use the paradigm of 'sliders', but let the program perform the fade over a set amount of time. Much smoother and more repeatable than what you can do by hand.

Check the DMX King and Enttec sites for economical DMX interfaces. They also list compatible software, what we use at Blackfriars Theatre included.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

R
Upgrading Circus Lighting Rig - Console
Replies
14
Views
1K
almorton
A
P
Control/Dimming Advice for choosing a light console
Replies
7
Views
2K
kenact
kenact
J
Design Bad theater infrastructure help
Replies
16
Views
2K
Jay Ashworth
Jay Ashworth
Rip Van Winkle
Projected backdrops on a multipurpose stage
Replies
2
Views
1K
ship
S
pchaussalet
Aerial lighting and projection ideas
Replies
6
Views
838
pchaussalet
pchaussalet

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back