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Which one to choose?

Discussion in 'Sound, Music, and Intercom' started by adude23, Jul 14, 2008.

  1. adude23

    adude23 Active Member

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    Hi there guys really need your help i need a 'quick fix' cheapish radio uhf mic and iwant your opinion on which one is better i have two and i would like all of your opinions please :)

    1 - CITRONIC MP16UHF (CITRONIC MP16UHF WIRELESS HANDHELD MICROPHONE DIVERSITY SYSTEM: Phase One: DJ and Disco Stuff)
    2 - Behringer UL2000M (DJ Store | DJ Equipment | Behringer UL2000M UHF Radio Microphone System :: £129.00)

    Which one would you choose?
    thanks for your help
    ~Adude~
     
  2. Eboy87

    Eboy87 Well-Known Member

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    Application being?
     
  3. adude23

    adude23 Active Member

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    Sorry, The application would be mainly concert/stage based
    cheers
    ~Adude~
     
  4. lieperjp

    lieperjp Well-Known Member

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    I don't know about that Behringer. We bought two at my high school, brand new out of box didn't work. It works well if, and only if, the mic stays in one location without moving. If a person is holding it and moving around, it cuts out for a second or two every 5-10 seconds. We ended up returning them and buying some Audio-Technica mics.
     
  5. adude23

    adude23 Active Member

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    ahh thank you i will take that into consideration personally i like the look of the citronic one much better but wasn't sure any other comments guys?
     
  6. Eboy87

    Eboy87 Well-Known Member

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    What's your budget for these?
     
  7. adude23

    adude23 Active Member

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    Well I've whittled it down to these to mics which are the same price so im really looking to chose between the two
     
  8. waynehoskins

    waynehoskins Active Member

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    Just be aware, you get what you pay for in a radio mic. You take every possible failure mode of a wired microphone, and then you add a fragile radio link.

    I won't go any cheaper than Sennheiser EW100 for my stuff (which is ballpark $500 a transmitter-receiver set).

    There are only a few manufacturers who I trust with (1) designing and (2) constructing a UHF FM link radio set, the transmitter of which (and its antenna) is to be mounted within or tethered to a handheld or bodyworn microphone, and neither of the two you listed are in there.

    You unfortunately get what you pay for.
     
  9. audioslavematt

    audioslavematt Active Member

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    Another vote for not wasting your money. Invest what you were planning to spend on this into a quality wired handheld or two. (Audix OM series for this application would be good.) As Mr. Ladue says, living in a Behringer world is worth any one's time. The other company, I've never even heard of.
     
  10. Eboy87

    Eboy87 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed with the rest. I kept asking because I'd save your money and wait to get a good (better?) quality mic. Especially with RF mics; you get what you pay for. A vote here for the Senni stuff. Save your money and either go with a wired or save for a good wireless.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2008
  11. mbenonis

    mbenonis Wireless Guy Administrator

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    I do not recommend any wireless systems under $500 USD as a general rule. That said, it would be helpful to know what exactly you want to do with this mic. Are you looking to use it for singing, speaking, or something else? What conditions will it be used in? Indoors? Outdoors? Rain/water? What kind of RF environment will this be used in? A major city? The country? These questions will help us determine what mics will be right for you.
     
  12. adude23

    adude23 Active Member

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    Basically i have a limited budget as i'm doing a show in a week or two and this needs to be bought with-in the rest of my sound budget (which isn't very much to begin with) the director is insisting that she wants to buy and put away in case we need to use it again it's going to be used for a school dance show/concert and basically i need a cheap quick fix im not looking for suggestions of other mics because i know there are much better systems out there and i would be buying seni's ew100's if if i could but the thing is i can't and these are the two i have chosen and im simply asking for your opinion to which one you would buy if in the same situation as me :)
    cheers
    ~Adude#
     
  13. museav

    museav CBMod CB Mods Departed Member

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    My impression is that most people would fight to get better wireless mics or would try to figure out how to use wired mics and thus don't have experience with these models.

    If you have immediate needs then consider renting. Otherwise it may not be a good approach to let the short term needs and funding limitations drive the purchase for systems they plan to use again.
     
  14. waynehoskins

    waynehoskins Active Member

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    I agree, go the rental route. You can use the argument that anything cheaper than the EW100 standard (or whatever) is known to be prone to failure. You can buy cheap and have it crap out in the middle of performance (but hey, you have a wireless set); or you can rent a professional unit for that amount or less per production; and/or you can save your pennies and buy a reliable one.

    The cheapest I'd even think about going is Shure's PG line (and it's crap).

    Stress the reliability factor. You can't have the thing crap out on you, or when the actor gets near center.
     
  15. jkowtko

    jkowtko Active Member

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    Since no one else seems to have an opinion other than "spend more money" ... here's my thought --

    Buy one of each. If you're lucky, both will work well and you can decide which one you like based on user-interface and features. If one turns out bad, then you still have one good one, and hopefully you can return the bad one since it will be within a couple weeks of purchase.

    If both turn out terrible, then everyone else on this forum is right, and unfortunately you'll have to move a step up. Then you can return both of them.

    When you set them up, remember to splay the antennas in a V and if you get dropouts, move the receivers around, try to get them in the 10-30 foot distance range (but not closer than 5 feet), and try different frequencies.

    Good luck :)
     
  16. adude23

    adude23 Active Member

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    Thank yo jkowtko! exactly the kind of answer i was hoping to find that's a very good suggestion and i will defiantly give it a try with the director :)
     
  17. Hughesie

    Hughesie Well-Known Member

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    behringer desks are fantastic hiss generators :)
     
  18. Chris15

    Chris15 CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

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    The reason Behringer etc get a bad rap is a lot to do with their manufacturing... Dry Joint city anyone? They are also single board construction in mixers etc which is a right pain to troubleshoot and repair.

    Cheap RF can have crappy filters which leave you prone to RF noise. The cheapest systems only have a single frequency option and if that's already in use, you are boned...

    As others have noted, ask the director if their artistic vision includes having the sound drop out mid show... I suspect not. Things like this are an investment and should be viewed as such. If a mic drops out in the middle of Bingo at the Senior Citizen's Centre, that's a different consideration to a show stopper.

    And that would be why my employer does not blink at spending 4 or 5 grand or whatever it works out to be per channel of radio, because a show stopped is going to cost WAY more than that...
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2008
  19. jkowtko

    jkowtko Active Member

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    Chris, I do not disagree that the higher end reputable systems are going to be a lot more bulletproof than the cheaper ones.

    However if you simply don't have the money available to spend, what choice do you have? Refuse to buy anything unless you can buy the best? That won't get you much of anywhere (unless mgmt is playing a negotiating game with their budget, in which case this may be the right tactic ;)

    A good "engineer" will do the best with available resources in addition to identifying the additional resources required to do better. I, for example, have gone a long way building up a set of 18 wireless using very little money. And, with the exception of one or two channels that give us trouble now and then (which I have pushed into the last slots for ensemble roles -- and I can probably still tune those), these are working great for the $25/seat we charge our patrons to see a show.

    And prudent emergency planning (i.e. backup floor mics, pickup from neighbor's lav) always helps. In the several Broadway shows I've seen I have noticed mics going out in at least two of them, so it's not necessarily always fixed by $$ -- even the best have the same issues.

    If I had 10 grand to spend on mics this year, sure I'd run to Sennheiser or Shure and buy some nice units. But I don't, and probably never will at this theater. Same with the boards ... a $10k budget and I'd have a much higher end Soundcraft, A&H, Midas or Yamaha LS9-32 on my table ... but for around $1000 I can still get a used LX7 that works really well.

    When resources are tight, I always use the 80/20 rule (achieve 80% of the benefit for 20% of the cost/effort) ... it generally results in a very good outcome.

    -- John
     
  20. Eboy87

    Eboy87 Well-Known Member

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    No one here is saying that the OP should go out and buy, say, a Sennheiser 5000 series set. The point we're trying to emphasize is "buy once, cry once." In my experience, just because you pay a small(er) amount for something now does not guarantee that you will only spend that amount on said purchase. By that I mean, say you buy a $150 wireless set (in keeping with the theme of the thread) from Nady or Behringer. Chances are that in a year, you'll spend another $150 to replace it because it broke (and not always from user abuse). It may even be DOA, and you have to buy another one. Now you're over $300, closer to $400 in the hole, and adjusting for inflation, you could have spent the same amount in the beginning on a nicer piece of gear and have it work for years.

    Based on this, renting when you need to is a perfect way of getting nice gear and not spending too much. Buying used is another great way. I had a POS amp die on me recently that I'd bought because it was cheap. Now I'm going to get a used XTi to replace it for near the same amount as I paid new for the dead one. Make nice with the local rental houses and they might even give you a nice discount on rentals. That being said, yes, some things it's cheaper to purchase rather than rent all the time. But wireless mics aren't something one should skimp on; they are many times the weakest link in the signal chain.

    As to your point about "a good engineer can make any equipment sound good," you're right to a certain extend. In my eyes however, this is not a good justification, as it will lead to "Oh, they're good enough to make due with whatever we give them," which winds up being cheap gear that breaks in a month or two, or worse, fails during a show. I've had both happen because of that attitude from a few employers.

    As I said, we're not saying that if you need an upgrade that you should wait until you can afford a DigiDesign Venue, or L'Acoustics V-Dosc, but that doesn't mean you should just skimp and buy a Eurodesk with matching Behringer speakers because "It's a good deal and we have no budget." Hold a fundraiser (or bake sale, I like those) to at least add a little bit more cash to the pot. The key here is finding a good balance between cheap and reliable. Don't just go to the bottom of the pile because the price is right.

    The point I'm trying to make, and trying to get back on topic, rent what you need. You should be able to get a decent deal on Shure SLX series from a rental house when you need them. I strongly recommend this route because the OP says they're going to put it away after its one use to use later on other shows. I would be leery trusting either of those two brands that long. I recommend this route because I've been on both sides of the equation, and have been bitten by these sort of problems more than once.

    I don't mean to single anyone out in this post, and I mean no offense, I just wanted to explain my position. I don't believe that throwing money at a problem will make it magically go away, but you do get what you pay for. Some of us have been in these positions before more than once and know how frustrating it is, just so you don't think we're all Monday morning quarterbacks.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2008

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