Whirlwind Cables?

[Sony]

then you're not using the right breakouts for your application...they make extra long breakouts 4-5 feet long or more. Anyways, if you want to buy good cables then I highly recommed Audio Technica or Pro-Co Sound. They are not expensive and come with rugged Neutrik connectors.

 

[howlingwolf487]

When you have a small breakout on the end, and you need to move something from channel 2 all the way to 30, thats a 3-4 foot jump.
Usually if you pull two cables in the breakout opposite directions, I can spread 2 feet, max.

Then you can cut the outside jacket back some and re-heatshrink it to the appropriate length (so long as the pairs are individually jacketed). That's what I did with the fanout for my rack.

The other option is to have the fanout and cable be separate so that you can keep the connections in the doghouse and just plug in the multipins to those and your rack panel. That would let you have the length you desire for repatching the console.

 

[Anonymous067]

So back to the main point. What are good, yet somewhat inexpensive XLR cables.

How much should I expect to pay for a 10, 25, and 50 foot cable?

 

[Sony]

So back to the main point. What are good, yet somewhat inexpensive XLR cables.

How much should I expect to pay for a 10, 25, and 50 foot cable?

if you want to buy good cables then I highly recommed Audio Technica or Pro-Co Sound. They are not expensive and come with rugged Neutrik connectors.

Audio Technica and Pro-Co Sound make some really good cables and B&H Photo/Video has some really good prices. They aren't too expensive and the longer cables you get the cheaper they get per Foot. You may pay $15 for a 10' cable but 25' and 50' cables are only like $20 and $25 respectively.

XLR to XLR Cables | B&H Photo Video

 

[Anonymous067]

Are the middle line of Whirlwind Cables any good?
Like the Whirlwind standard series with accusonic+2 wire?

That price seems to be OKAY.
I do refuse to have anything audia-technia in my system however. Sorry to shoot that idea down. Pro-co stuff seems to be a bit expensive (at least based on the fullcompass.com catalog I have in front of me).

Umm...making cables can be as simple as soldering the end on a lead right?
I had considered making cables once before, but it appears it MIGHT be slightly cheaper. Where on the quality scale does custom-made cables fall into play with pre-made ones?

Neutrik XX or X series connectors and Belden 8412?

 

[waynehoskins]

Now, I'll preface this by saying that I've been building and repairing cables for over half of my nearly 28 years of living, so your mileage may vary.

I inherently trust any cable that I've made far more than a premade one. Partly because I trust my soldering and prep and strain relief more than the economy lines that the Big Names are pushing out at billions a day. Partly because I don't use crap connectors except where it doesn't matter. Partly because I usually try to use good cable.

There are some people I trust to build cables and some I don't trust to build good cables.

Whether one you build is better or worse than a premade one is entirely dependent on which materials you both chose, and on your soldering ability.

 

[Anonymous067]

Partly because I don't use crap connectors except where it doesn't matter. Partly because I usually try to use good cable.

What cable and connectors would you use on a standard, used three to five times a week 25 foot XLR to XLR cable?

 

[waynehoskins]

Neutrik X series connectors (black are nice) and cable like Belden's 8412 would be good. Lately I've ended up inheriting a few more 50-footers than I need, and they were decent cable, so I cut them up into short cables. I think they were Rapco or Proco or VTG.

Gotham's GAC-2 cable is really nice (very flexible, and rugged enough for most things). I've got one still that I built over ten years ago. I want to build some more of those sometime, but their cable is hard to get in the States.

Belden 8402 with Switchraft A series conectors would be absolutely indestructible if you need that, but most of us don't. 8412 should suffice, and it's black too (8402 is brown).

Cable with a braided shield is better than one that's just spiral-wrapped, but it's also inherently less flexible. This is better for the shielding if it's prone to being beaten up. Tougher jackets and larger conductors are also good (8412 and 8402 are 20 AWG, I believe).

It's not so much to do with picking the best cable as it is not picking poorly-built cable. If it's decent, and you crank down the strain relief well (so it actually does something(!)), it should survive pretty well.

Another trick is to not strip the outer jacket back super far. With keeping everything clean in there, that means that even without strain relief, it's still almost impossible for the wires to short to each other if you twist the cable.

It's kind of like riding a bike. It takes a while to get the hang of it, but once you've got it, you've got it for good.

 

[Sony]

It's pretty easy to make your own mic cables! Pin 1 is Shield and Pin 2 and 3 can be ether wire as long as you keep them matched at ether end. Both ends are wired the same, so Pin 1 is Shield and the Shield connectes to Pin 1 on the other end, Pin 2 always goes to Pin 2 and Pin 3 always goes to Pin 3. This is of course unless you want to reverse polarity but I doubt you're going to want to do that. If you know how to solder then it's a piece of cake...it's probably the simplest soldering job you can do. Takes me about 5 - 10 minutes per cable! waynehoskins also has some great tips in the post above.

 

[Chris15]

The question as to where to custom made cables sit in the line is like asking how long is a piece of string. While the person asking the original question has said they don't want to make their own and while we thus should be giving some premade options (I doubt you'll want any of my Australian options).

Now making your own is how the vast majority of reputable production companies (at least in my neck of the woods) go about things. When you start buying in the NC3FXX and NC3MXX in the bulk packs of 100 and you order a couple of hundred or a thousand at a time, it they become less expensive. Cable bought in bulk is the same.

As previously noted, the preference of my employer, is for Canare Star Quad for mic leads and Eurocable Bantam Patch cable for patch cable... Neutrik XLRs, TRSs, etc. Eurocable multicore and LK multipins.

Now what determines where your cables stand compared to a premade option depends somewhat on the choice of cable and connector, but equally or more so on construction. A poor soldering job and you can have a cable more unreliable than the Chinese imports...

 

[LekoBoy]

Buying NC3FXX and NC3MXX and Belden 8412 and making them yourself, or insisting that the cables you buy are made from those, is the best way. It's just not worth saving a few cents or even a dollar to buy cheap cables.

This is Whirlwind's largest American competitor, and maybe better quality. RapcoHorizon | Cables>Microphone, the NM5 is the best cost vs. quality.

 

[Anonymous067]

Okay...what actually makes the cheap cables so...well...bad?
Is it bad connectors, bad cable, both? I mean if the connection is there the connection is there. I've added my budget so I won't be buying economy, but still debating building cables or not.

 

[derekleffew]

Is it bad connectors, bad cable, both? ...

Yes to both questions, plus poor terminations. The shielding should be braided and offer the most coverage. The wire guage should be as heavy as possible, while still allowing flexibility. The fillers should have inherent strength so as not to transfer strain onto the conductors. The outer jacket needs to be strong, yet flexible. The cable should be inherently immune from kinking, and not have a memory so it coils nicely.

The connectors should be easy to assemble/disassemble, and be able to withstand being stepped upon, having road cases (or scenery, forklifts, man-lifts, and platform lifts) being rolled over them. Black or silver is a personal choice; as is gold- or nickel-plated contacts.

The construction should include no cold solder joints, the cable stripped to proper length, the conductors tinned properly, the jacket inside the strain relief.

I've seen artists' technical riders which state, for the Star's main vocal mic: "Two (2) NEW, in never-been-opened packages, from a USA-manufacturer, highest quality Fifty foot long, microphone cables, using either Switchcraft or Neutrik XLR connectors." If I were a famous singer, I would demand the same.

 

[waynehoskins]

Okay...what actually makes the cheap cables so...well...bad?
Is it bad connectors, bad cable, both? I mean if the connection is there the connection is there. I've added my budget so I won't be buying economy, but still debating building cables or not.

Here's how Horizon years ago saved money on their economy line:
- in-house connectors, cheap Switchcraft A3 knockoffs with low-temp plastic
- in-house cable, small conductors, thin jackets, little fillers
- never tightened the strain reliefs
= guaranteed to fail in short order

I lost count of how many of those I fixed back in the mid '90s.

 

[Chris15]

Some of the poor / cheap connectors have sloppy tolerances in manufacturing and so don't neccessarily connect snugly. Some just have a weird design that saves metal or whatever. If you don't have a rock solid connection, then you can get crackling and other nastiness. This worsens when phantom
is involved... A good latching setup helps this process as well as reducing the likelihood of something embarrassing like the cable falling out of the mic from happening...

Poor cable can internally fracture or can in really bad cases short out. I dislike intensely cable that has inner insulation that melts too easily, it makes them extraordinarily difficult to work with. I also dislike anything the feels ick, because it is destroying my hands as I roll it...

You also want some flex in the cable so that it can work properly with the strain relief. I seen NL4s ripped off rubbish cable much more than off good cable, because the strain relief works better when it can bite.

Termination wise, it is easier to strip back a bit more of the centre conductors, but doing so leaves exposed conductor when terminated that is liable to short out to the shield after abuse.

Cable that bluntens the tools used to cut it is actually good, as it means they are using Kevlar or something else with good strength to reduce the starin on the all important twisted pair. Oh, and for mic cable, some cheap cable doesn't have reliable twisting of the centre pair. This is absolutely essential for a balanced line, as it is a rather large part of the common mode rejection setup...

 

[Anonymous067]

Slight change of subject.

What cable (bulk) to use for a speaker cable? Looking at these cables:

100 Foot Speakon to Speakon (preferred 4 conductor for biamp uses)
25 Foot Speakon to Speakon (preferred 4 conductor but can be 2)
SHORT 1/4 male to Speakon (probably 2 conductor)

I determined from people here I needed belden 8412 for XLR cables. What about 1/4" to XLR cables? TRS balanced please.

 

[howlingwolf487]

What about 1/4" to XLR cables? TRS balanced please.

Use the same type of cable. You're just changing the connector, not the environment the cable will be used it or it's number of conductors, etc., so go with the same type.

 

[waynehoskins]

For speaker cable, I usually use regular SJ cable from the electrical cable makers. 14/4 or 12/4 work well for NL4s. It's not super flexible; some of the other stuff (Rapco/Horizon/VTG, Proco, Whirlwind) is probably more flexible. I find mine on Ebay usually.

 

[Anonymous067]

I really want Neutrik XX series connectors, but I just well assume, if I build XLR cables, I may as well build all my cables. And I can't find anybody who makes cables with Neutriks already on them.

Plus I can't figure out what cable is used on Speakon cables.

 

[waynehoskins]

Plus I can't figure out what cable is used on Speakon cables.

Plain old 14/4 SJ. Electrical supplier and sometimes hardware store has it. Online you can probably find it cheaper. You can also use 12/4 SJ if you like, and you can use SO instead if you like (it will be more durable at the expense of being larger and heavier).