Whirlwind Cables?
- Thread starterAnonymous067
- Start date
waynehoskins
Active Member
1192A and 1172A are "Star Quad" cable. The two same-colored wires (often blue and white) are tied together; that gets you a redundant wire, and Belden claim the Star Quad construction to be superior to a traditional twisted pair in terms of common-mode rejection. I'm not partial either way really; both work.
The big thing about 8412 is it's 20 AWG (Star Quad are usually 24 or 26 AWG) honest twisted pair, with plenty of fillers, a braided shield, and a beefy jacket. It's almost indestructible at the expense of some flexibility (it's not uber limp). Star Quad are normally more flexible, since often they don't have as much filler strands or as beefy a jacket.
In my mind, the big advantage to Star Quad is the redundant pairs, at the expense of some durability in extreme conditions.
The big thing about 8412 is it's 20 AWG (Star Quad are usually 24 or 26 AWG) honest twisted pair, with plenty of fillers, a braided shield, and a beefy jacket. It's almost indestructible at the expense of some flexibility (it's not uber limp). Star Quad are normally more flexible, since often they don't have as much filler strands or as beefy a jacket.
In my mind, the big advantage to Star Quad is the redundant pairs, at the expense of some durability in extreme conditions.
Anonymous067
Active Member
Thanks for the clarification. :]
waynehoskins
Active Member
Star Quad does lower the noise floor. Canare have the graphs to "show" it, well to the extent that any manufacturer's marketing material is to be taken as gospel... Here.
Hmmm... You have a whole few milliamps running through a mic cable. I don't tend to think you need a terribly thick conductor... Durability can I guess fall in favour of the thicker cable. I still dislike seeing it.
And I'll lay down that I dislike Belden. I don't like the feel of the insulation. I like smooth, flexible insulation, on the outside and the inside. But I will give them marks for a double braided shield on their core. Oh wait, that's the biggest reason I dislike it, it's an absolute pain to unbraid that shielding because they entangle in each other...
The same thoughts on insulation feel and flexibility apply to speaker cable. Some people have a tendency to use less flexible electrical cable than they should and that is not great for handling, nor for gripping the Speakon connectors on... I also dislike cable that covers my jeans legs in powder when working with it...
I doubt it applies as much in the environments the majority of the readership work in, but cables over about 50 metres really have no excuse for being less than 4mm sq in conductor cross sectional area, presuming you are running *real* speakers at reasonable to high power levels...
Someone asked about TRS - XLR, the comment was made about same cable, agreed, though I'd be making them in patch cable for flexibility. As to connectors, Neutrik NP3X.
I think it might be prudent to mention that the environment I work in, budget is less of an issue than it is for a number of people. We can afford to be fussy because to an extent we can't afford not to be. When there are 6 or 7 figures being charged for a show and/or it's being televised to millions and in some cases billions of people, a little bit extra on cabling is very cheap insurance... Abuse wise, cables are very close to the top of the list (after I think crew
). Cables fail, things don't go so good for your reputation...
My few cents worth anyway...
Hmmm... You have a whole few milliamps running through a mic cable. I don't tend to think you need a terribly thick conductor... Durability can I guess fall in favour of the thicker cable. I still dislike seeing it.
And I'll lay down that I dislike Belden. I don't like the feel of the insulation. I like smooth, flexible insulation, on the outside and the inside. But I will give them marks for a double braided shield on their core. Oh wait, that's the biggest reason I dislike it, it's an absolute pain to unbraid that shielding because they entangle in each other...
The same thoughts on insulation feel and flexibility apply to speaker cable. Some people have a tendency to use less flexible electrical cable than they should and that is not great for handling, nor for gripping the Speakon connectors on... I also dislike cable that covers my jeans legs in powder when working with it...
I doubt it applies as much in the environments the majority of the readership work in, but cables over about 50 metres really have no excuse for being less than 4mm sq in conductor cross sectional area, presuming you are running *real* speakers at reasonable to high power levels...
Someone asked about TRS - XLR, the comment was made about same cable, agreed, though I'd be making them in patch cable for flexibility. As to connectors, Neutrik NP3X.
I think it might be prudent to mention that the environment I work in, budget is less of an issue than it is for a number of people. We can afford to be fussy because to an extent we can't afford not to be. When there are 6 or 7 figures being charged for a show and/or it's being televised to millions and in some cases billions of people, a little bit extra on cabling is very cheap insurance... Abuse wise, cables are very close to the top of the list (after I think crew
). Cables fail, things don't go so good for your reputation...My few cents worth anyway...
Anonymous067
Active Member
waynehoskins
Active Member
Preferably not if you can avoid it -- Neutrik NL4 (or NL8 as applicable) or Cannon EP (for typically pre-Speakon boxes) are much better. If all that your boxes have is 1/4", one of three options that come to mind might be the thing to do:
- convert the boxes to NL4 (and do loop 2+2- through even though you don't use them on that box) -- if you have room, simply adding NL4s gives you some more flexibility
- build NL4-to-1/4" adapter tails (Neutrik recently came out with a NL4 inline male perfect for that)
- build 1/4" cables (I'd avoid this one if possible)
If you do have to go with 1/4" connectors one way or another, Switchcraft and Neutrik make a 1/4" connector designed for large-diameter cable. I don't remember the model number offhand, but it should be in all the major catalogs.
Anonymous067
Active Member
Yeah.
First of all, I don't like 1/4" cables period. Too many accidental un-plugs from idiots.
A model number was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for your help.
Could you show me a portable snake WITHOUT 1/4" returns (or XLR...which is even worse).
I do prefer speakons. If you read the preface of my thread, you see I say somewhere I want speakon's. However, to make the system compatible with visitor systems, other peoples amps, loop outs, cable shortages, I'd like to have a few 1/4"ers around.
Thanks.
Do explain!!!
Err you mean the ones designed for as volt of line level signal and wired to 22 odd gauge wire NOT speaker level signal? Plenty of consoles have balanced TRS outputs, and in fact XLR is even better in those cases... If I were ever to see Speakon on a core, I'd be concerned...
And the 6.5mm plug has no place in professional speaker systems. Ever...
Anonymous067
Active Member
Okay...I'm not sure what a 6.5mm plug is. I'm guessing 1/4". If it has no place, why do over half the speakers produced have it on them?
Please reword your first sentence? It doesn't make sense.
Geez... you lot really have no idea of the metric system... 6.5mm is 1/4"... You will note that I said professional... The half you are referring to are probably those that fail to meet my definition of professional... It's a bad plug and if you have stuff with it on, I'd be replacing it with Speakon... It also happens to momentarily short things out as you plug them in... part of the reason I dislike it...
The returns in cores are designed for line level signal, not speaker level and so they should not have speakon on them... Powering speakers off them will severely bone you at some point...
As to compatibility, in most cases I would think that bare ends were more versatile, but given some of the lower end stuff, I guess 1/4" can have a use...
