Who Gets Credit For What?

MrsFooter

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Let's say, for theoretical discussion, that you're the Lighting Director at a roadhouse. You're loading in a dance company, and the road LD walks an hour before house open, taking all the paperwork with him. So that show disk you're holding is now completely useless. With the SM by your side, you manage to sit down and program the entire show in an hour. The SM can give you a general direction towards what each look should be as designed by a designer, (such as whether it's warm or cool, dark or bright, realistic looking or dream-like, and a few of the dominate colors,) but it's your plot that you're using and you're the one who actually puts together each cue and decide what it looks like.

So, were you to decide, theoretically, to use this show on your website or portfolio, who's design is it, and what can and cannot you take credit for? The designer came up with the concept, but you're the one who actually put it together. So who can take credit for what?

*For the record, I'm not putting any of this on my website, partially because it was an awkward situation and partially because I didn't have a camera with me so I have no pictures of any of my looks from this show. But I think it's an interesting point of discussion.
 
I personally think that since you actually "designed" the lighting, you created the looks on what you wanted them to ultimately look like, you are the designer. Whether it should go on a portfolio or website is a little different though. If that designer were to see "their" design on your website, they would probably be more then a little pissed off about it.
 
You designed it; you get the credit. If the LD wanted credit, he wouldn't have walked. LD's that walk an hour before the house opens don't stay LD's very long anyway. You're not taking credit for anyone's work but your own.
I was handed a mock up of one of our programs not long ago. My assistant, who was in charge of costumes and the program had placed her head shot and bio next to mine under the heading "Directors". :(
 
You designed it; you get the credit. If the LD wanted credit, he wouldn't have walked. LD's that walk an hour before the house opens don't stay LD's very long anyway. You're not taking credit for anyone's work but your own.
I was handed a mock up of one of our programs not long ago. My assistant, who was in charge of costumes and the program had placed her head shot and bio next to mine under the heading "Directors". :(

I think its a costumes thing. Similar thing happened the last place I worked... Although, I tend to request to have my headshot removed from the program or wall if its on there... Ill write a quick bio for you and get "Lighting Design by..." but other than that, not really. I dont like any pictures of me. As to the original question, Its your design, you get credit. Go ahead and pop it on the website. Personally, if the original guy complained I would put the circumstances right next to the show description but thats just me...
 
If that designer were to see "their" design on your website, they would probably be more then a little pissed off about it.

I should have mentioned originally that in this exercise the guy who walked and the guy who designed the show that the SM helped you through are not the same people.

(I'm not really sure what the situation was, but the feeling I was getting was that after many years of the same design this new LD came in and tried to reinvent the wheel. I got the feeling that the show the SM was helping me through was closer to the original design by the first LD. But again, I'm not 100% sure.)

Resume discussion.
 
Well, that is a sticky situation. My take is that you really need to put your ego aside and let the credit go to the original designer (not the road LD that walked). Even though you put together the cues, you were attempting to maintain the original composition and design of the work as best you could. If I were to put it on my site, I would credit the designer, and then credit myself as "Recreated at _______ by *My Name Here*"
 
Interesting conundrum. Let me offer another thought...
In a touring situation, if you are working for the HOUSE, and not the COMPANY or PRODUCTION, you are never the designer. Where's your Lighting Concept/Lighting Statement ? How many production meetings did you attend with the director and rest of the design team? Conversely, one who comes into a venue and focuses and cues may well be the designer, or may better be termed a Lighting Director. It doesn't matter who drew symbols on a light plot (and there may not even be a light plot). Many house repertory plots evolve over time with each person making minor changes. Whose plot is it anyway? Who cares?

I wouldn't list a credit as "Lighting Designer for East Spider Breath Ballet Company's production of The Nutcracker" if I were the house electrician where it played, even if they didn't bring lighting people.
 
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Well, that is a sticky situation. My take is that you really need to put your ego aside and let the credit go to the original designer (not the road LD that walked). Even though you put together the cues, you were attempting to maintain the original composition and design of the work as best you could. If I were to put it on my site, I would credit the designer, and then credit myself as "Recreated at _______ by *My Name Here*"

The only comparison to this that I can think of would be the bway revival of Chorus Line back in 2006. Even though there wasn't a single lighting instrument or gel color that was the same as the original production, Tharon Musser got the credit for the lighting design, and Natasha got a "Lighting adapted by" credit. While Natasha created the plot and every cue, the concepts behind the design were Tharon's, so she got the credit. That said, there's a very fine line between making a new design and recreating someone else's design, so it's really a decision that only you can make after looking at all the facts surrounding the event.
 
I would ask yourself are you proud of the design ?, or of the fact that you pulled their bacon out of the fire ?.

As well, is there anything about the design that you are particularly proud of ?, and do you need it in your portfolio.

Since the original design was by an LD that had nothing to do with this production, that person is in actuality the designer. In my opinion, everybody else that recreated the original should be/can be listed as Lighting Director, yourself included.
 
.....Since the original design was by an LD that had nothing to do with this production, that person is in actuality the designer. In my opinion, everybody else that recreated the original should be/can be listed as Lighting Director, yourself included.

Tharon Musser got the credit for the lighting design, and Natasha got a "Lighting adapted by" credit. While Natasha created the plot and every cue, the concepts behind the design were Tharon's, so she got the credit....

I have to agree here. Personally, I would not allow myself to be listed as the designer in a situation such as you describe. Neither would I allow the peripatetic designer to be listed if there was any way to prevent it or make the correction with a program insert. If I read you post correctly, you recreated the original design concept from the memory of the stage manager, using your rep plot. If a listing is needed, I would go the "Lighting adapted by" route. All the above is just IMHO.
 
I would ask yourself are you proud of the design ?, or of the fact that you pulled their bacon out of the fire ?.

That right there is the only reason that I would even consider including this show on my website. No, it wasn't my best work; we weren't exactly making high art, here. But it was an unusual situation that I believe showcased an ability to rise to the occasion and put up a show no matter the obstacles.

As for what goes in the program, in this particular situation it's a moot point. I'm given the blanket credit of Lighting Director in every program, regardless of the show, because it's in our standard program. (Including shows I'm not even a part of, so there you go.) Then each program gets an insert with the specifics of the show. I don't know whether theirs included lighting design credits, (many don't,) but even if it did he walked an hour before house open, so those inserts were long printed and stuffed. Luckily, I'm pretty sure no one reads the tech credits in our programs anyway!

Love the discussion that's going on!
 
He walked with the disks and paperwork...wow, how immature...quitting is one thing...but walking out with intellectual property that isn't even yours...that's unacceptable.

He's gonna be giving those disks and papers back soon, once he gets served with a lawsuit from the company. I know when I have designed lights for outside companies/events that I have been paid for, the rights to USE the design were signed over in my contract with the company. Walking off with all copies of the cues and call sheets would have ended up with my butt being sued into the ground. After the design is finished, it is owned by the company and I can't just up and take it away from them, and that is me the designer...not some pissant road LD who never designed the thing in the first place and was basically just handed the disks and design and told to recreate it at each stop. He'll never work as a road LD ever again...if he ever works in the industry again.
 
That said, there's a very fine line between making a new design and recreating someone else's design, so it's really a decision that only you can make after looking at all the facts surrounding the event.
Let's say I'm a student and I design a show in the school district's performing arts center using the rep plot designed by their lighting staff. I changed most of the gel colors and added a couple specials and gobos to existing instruments. The show was a musical revue with no set to work around, so having come up a new design to provide light on the whole stage would have been like reinventing the wheel, but can I still say that I designed it?
 
Let's say I'm a student and I design a show in the school district's performing arts center using the rep plot designed by their lighting staff. I changed most of the gel colors and added a couple specials and gobos to existing instruments. The show was a musical revue with no set to work around, so having come up a new design to provide light on the whole stage would have been like reinventing the wheel, but can I still say that I designed it?

I would certainly say so! Just because you didn't necessarily say how far off center you wanted that pipe end hung, doesn't mean you didn't still design the show. Every dance lighting designer in the world puts lights on booms, but that doesn't mean they need to write "Lighting Design by Jean Rosenthal, Adapted by Me" in the program. Rep plots are a fact of life in lots of theatres, and for good reason. I'd say that even if you walked in and didn't change any of the color or templates in the rep plot, you'd still be designing the show - after all, there are literally millions of ways you can use your instruments to create new compositions within the confines of whatever plot happens to be in the air. In the end, design is about deciding what you want the stage to look like at what times - not whether you chose to use 26s or 36s in the high sides.
 
Interesting conundrum. Let me offer another thought...
In a touring situation, if you are working for the HOUSE, and not the COMPANY or PRODUCTION, you are never the designer. Where's your Lighting Concept/Lighting Statement ? How many production meetings did you attend with the director and rest of the design team? .

Big grey area here though, especially for house LD's. Certainly Steph (and I) have designed, in every sense of the word, for acts that have no LD, no advance paperwork, and no real communication up to the point that you are sitting at the console during sound check. It's at that point that you hear the music, sometimes for the first time and start to make artistic decisions as to what's appropriate for certain songs, getting a sense of the timings, possibly making adjustments to some focus if possible. Then you run the show and are the designer. Period. It's your color palette and possibly you chose it, as well as the basic focus, based on prior experience with similar acts. Thus you've made design decisions and are doing so in the cuing process that happens to coincide with the performance.

It's something I do every week and I know Stephanie does as well. Do I get credit for it ?, usually no as I'm already credited in the house program. But I would have no issues with stating in my portfolio that I designed lighting for Peter, Paul and Mary at BC in '92. Or many, many similar acts.

Would I then call myself the designer for the situation Steph. lay'ed out for us ?. No. I'm the ad-hoc Director, but the basic color choices as well as instrument choices (angle) as well as the essential "look" of the assorted cues, were all done prior for this company. As house Lighting Director, you are assisting the SM in re-creating those looks and cues, but that does not make you the designer.
 
In a touring situation, if you are working for the HOUSE, and not the COMPANY or PRODUCTION, you are never the designer. Where's your Lighting Concept/Lighting Statement ? How many production meetings did you attend with the director and rest of the design team? Conversely, one who comes into a venue and focuses and cues may well be the designer, or may better be termed a Lighting Director. It doesn't matter who drew symbols on a light plot (and there may not even be a light plot). Many house repertory plots evolve over time with each person making minor changes. Whose plot is it anyway? Who cares?

Derek brings up a good point, here. What, exactly, makes one a designer? If the show has no formal conceptual production process, does that mean that there is no designer? And what does that mean for shows that are busked live? What constitutes a design?

Discuss.
 
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