# Will 4200 Lumens be enough?

#### brandtryan

##### Member
Any feedback on the following REAR projection setup would be greatly appreciated. The theatre is small - 150 capacity.

Stage Dimensions:
23' wide, 27' deep, 8.5' height

I'll be projecting 1080P content that has been "letterboxed" to fill the awkward screen size (23' x 8.5', white stretched spandex). The "black bars" on top/bottom will just project onto the ceiling and floor.

It appears I have two options:

Option 1:
Use a short throw (.5 ratio) projector like the Optoma GT1090HDR ($1399). This is a "gaming" projector - but it does put out 4200 lumens (effective "ANSI" lumens more like 3800), has a 300,000:1 contrast ratio (laser model), and well, has a very short throw ratio . This would leave a downstage acting area of approximately 8' deep, which is fine for this particular production. In this setup, the stage lights used would be more or less hitting the actors from 45deg above - sort of the classic "Rembrandt" lighting, or classic portraiture lighting. I will obviously work with the lighting designer to minimize any light coming close to the screen, and certainly avoid any lights actually hitting the screen (aside from ambient and bouncing light that is beyond my control). I'm just hoping for an "acceptable" image - nothing spectacular, but just trying to avoid the image being washed out to an unacceptable degree. Unacceptable to me would be something like anything more than 30% washed out, if that even makes sense. The bonus with this option: I would own the projector. Option 2: Rent a 10K projector (and lens) with a .78 throw ratio. This would require me to build a platform to extend the stage 4', as with the longer throw there wouldn't be enough "acting space". The stage lights would be moved for this setup, and again, would be approximately hitting the actors at 45deg. This is a much more expensive solution - as the rental is likely going to come in around$2000 - $3000 for the short run of the production - and I have to add the cost of building the platform stage extension. Any replies would be greatly appreciated! #### jtweigandt ##### Well-Known Member These images may help you decide 39 steps. Rear projected 2000 lumen viewsonic bounced off mirror to a semi transparent scrim Both of these images have lots of foreground lighting and pretty dark background projection. Sort of your worst case demo, but it worked (In person was brighter appearing than picture) Use a more dense cloth rather than scrim=brighter 3000 lumen = brighter.. but you're covering more area so probably on a par brightness wise. Need to avoid ANY direct fore lighting on your screen/scrim #### RonHebbard ##### Well-Known Member Premium Member Any feedback on the following REAR projection setup would be greatly appreciated. The theatre is small - 150 capacity. View attachment 21660 Stage Dimensions: 23' wide, 27' deep, 8.5' height I'll be projecting 1080P content that has been "letterboxed" to fill the awkward screen size (23' x 8.5', white stretched spandex). The "black bars" on top/bottom will just project onto the ceiling and floor. It appears I have two options: Option 1: Use a short throw (.5 ratio) projector like the Optoma GT1090HDR ($1399). This is a "gaming" projector - but it does put out 4200 lumens (effective "ANSI" lumens more like 3800), has a 300,000:1 contrast ratio (laser model), and well, has a very short throw ratio . This would leave a downstage acting area of approximately 8' deep, which is fine for this particular production. In this setup, the stage lights used would be more or less hitting the actors from 45deg above - sort of the classic "Rembrandt" lighting, or classic portraiture lighting. I will obviously work with the lighting designer to minimize any light coming close to the screen, and certainly avoid any lights actually hitting the screen (aside from ambient and bouncing light that is beyond my control).

I'm just hoping for an "acceptable" image - nothing spectacular, but just trying to avoid the image being washed out to an unacceptable degree. Unacceptable to me would be something like anything more than 30% washed out, if that even makes sense.

The bonus with this option: I would own the projector.

Option 2:
Rent a 10K projector (and lens) with a .78 throw ratio. This would require me to build a platform to extend the stage 4', as with the longer throw there wouldn't be enough "acting space". The stage lights would be moved for this setup, and again, would be approximately hitting the actors at 45deg.
This is a much more expensive solution - as the rental is likely going to come in around $2000 -$3000 for the short run of the production - and I have to add the cost of building the platform stage extension.

Any replies would be greatly appreciated!
1; A black screen could / would be your friend, Rosco Labs Black comes to mind. Rosco Black's major shortcoming is its reduced viewing angle. Not having a balcony works in your favor, if your patron's seating area is wide, those seated far off to one side will only see their side of the screen.
2; Lighting-wise, consider lighting from the sides, both sides, shooting across stage with the spill and any shadows disappearing into the wings on the opposite side; this will let you illuminate your performers without any spill on your screen. Barn doors, 1/2 doors, and 1/2 hats, yes, even on ellipsoidals, can help in minimizing spill on your screen as can home-made donuts cut from Black Wrap.
Lighting from the front, no matter how steep the angle, floor bounce will be your enemy.

You will be totally amazed how well side lighting can work for you; using subtle variations, warm and warmer or cool and cooler will help with facial / feature modelling, minimizing a flat look, and pulling your performers closer to your patrons.
Side booms, even as short as 8 to 10 feet, can work well. Careful blocking is mandatory to minimize one actor shadowing an other, especially when couples are extremely close ( as was often the case pre Corona chaos and social distancing).
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

Last edited:

#### brandtryan

##### Member
1; A black screen could / would be your friend, Rosco Labs Black comes to mind. Rosco Black's major shortcoming is its reduced viewing angle. Not having a balcony works in your favor, if your patron's seating area is wide, those seated far off to one side will only see their side of the screen.
2; Lighting-wise, consider lighting from the sides, both sides, shooting across stage with the spill and any shadows disappearing into the wings on the opposite side; this will let you illuminate your performers without any spill on your screen. Barn doors, 1/2 doors, and 1/2 hats, yes, even on ellipsoidals, can help in minimizing spill on your screen as can home-made donuts cut from Black Wrap.
Lighting from the front, no matter how steep the angle, floor bounce will be your enemy.

You will be totally amazed how well side lighting can work for you; using subtle variations, warm and warmer or cool and cooler will help with facial / feature modelling, minimizing a flat look, and pulling your performers closer to your patrons.
Side booms, even as short as 8 to 10 feet, can work well. Careful blocking is mandatory to minimize one actor shadowing an other, especially when couples are extremely close ( as was often the case pre Corona chaos and social distancing).
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
Side lighting - will absolutely be pursuing that - thank you so much for the tip! Will also look into the black screen.

#### brandtryan

##### Member
Brightly lit lobby Front projected to painted wall epson 3000 lumen with about 18 feet throw. View attachment 21663
This is encouraging! With 4200 lumens and a 11' throw, and way less ambient light .... just might work - especially if I utilize "side" lighting per suggestion from RonHebbard.

#### RonHebbard

##### Well-Known Member
Side lighting - will absolutely be pursuing that - thank you so much for the tip! Will also look into the black screen.
@brandtryan When you're cross lighting, position your sources so you're shooting straight across parallel to your screen. NOT across and slightly up stage. NO, straight across, slightly back lighting rather than leaning towards front lighting; yes, it feels contrary, but it works with only light reflecting from your performers reaching your screen from the front.
Remember, complimentary colors from opposite sides; warm and warmer / cool and cooler / warm and cool if you're feeling really radical; I once used amber and red for a dance number in Chorus Line for a different look.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

TimMc

#### almorton

##### Well-Known Member
I second this, we use relatively low power projectors a lot (although more than 4200, and front projecting) and side lighting is the order of the day. And yes, we have used ice cold from one side (L711) and warm (L154) from the other and it works really well.

#### jtweigandt

##### Well-Known Member
Also if you buy the right series of epson and some others, they are "stackable" You bolt one right on top of the other and they have built in 2 axis keystone control so you can align and project the same image from both projectors, doubling the output. You then have the firepower of maybe 8 k lumens, and the versatility to use 2 projectors in some other project. (Disclaimer.. I have not personally done this but our next projector purchase will likely be in the stackable category)

CB Mods