#### gafftapegreenia

##### CBMod
CB Mods
So, what's up with Altman. Seems to me they've been quiet for a while. Are they just lacking in new toys or might they have something up their sleeve?

#### Footer

##### Senior Team
Senior Team
Personally I think altman has scaled back a bit and really focused in on what their part in the industry is. I think they have stopped trying to chase the source 4 and really began focusing in on their other products. The zip strip is a great unit, as well as their fresnels and cyc fixtures. I think altman will become the defacto accessory company and other gear like that. There will also always be the need for the 360q, a very cost effective fixture that does throw light out of one end.

#### soundlight

##### Well-Known Member
They really have the market for MR-16 and MR-11 striplights cornered. They've got the Zip Strips and Mini Strips, both of which are amazing units. They also make good cyc lights, and there will never be a time when the good ol' Altman 65Q will not be needed. They're a great workhorse unit. Also, the 3.5Q fixtures are cheaper than S4 juniors, so for people needing compact units that don't care as much about superior quality but more about price, they've got that market cornered. They've also got some new LED fixtures, and they make nice barndoors and donuts and tophats and halfhats and all sorts of other fun stuff like that.

They're relying on the Old Standards, and it's working really, really well for them from what I see...great for high schools as well.

#### gafftapegreenia

##### CBMod
CB Mods
Do you think there might be a chance for a 360Q with a dichronic reflector? Or is that one of those ETC patents that command royalties?

Also they seem to be the only company still really making Scoops, and, IMO, their PAR Cans are the best around.

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#### gafftaper

##### Senior Team
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First off don't forget about the Altman Shakespeare. They already have their answer to the S-4. Nobody's using them, but they have had their own version for a long time.

I think the more interesting question is Why aren't ETC and Strand trying to compete with Altman when it comes to fresnels, strips and Cyc lights? As was mentioned in a thread a while back wouldn't it be great if ETC made a real fresnel that you could pop an HPL 575 into and have one lamp to stock in your inventory. Altman is still very much the king of the not so sexy (strip and wash light) end of the conventional instrument world and I think they are quite happy to be there. Remember that the 360 was the most popular instrument on the market 20 some years ago. I think perhaps after getting their clocks cleaned by that upstart ETC they are perhaps a little conservative in their business model now.

Altman's future appears to be the connection with Colorkinetics and their LED par. ETC and Strand don't have an LED instrument yet do they? Altman's has been making them for what 3 years now? The Altman booth at LDI was all about the LED PAR. I wanted to get some info on strips and other gear and it just wasn't there. So my guess is that they are comfortable with what they already do really well and instead are focusing on taking the lead in a new direction with LED technology.

#### ship

##### Senior Team Emeritus
Seems like they are working heavily on the architectural line a lot also.

Just got some 70w CDM PAR 38's from them. Good for an install, really light duty for a touring fixture.

Pricing for parts go up next month - order parts now.

I seriously doubt there will ever be a dichroic 360Q fixture. Not enough room to fit it and for the budget or efficiency, why bother?

Improved Fresnels - totally un-related, there is something on the horizon is all I can say for the moment.

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#### Footer

##### Senior Team
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First off don't forget about the Altman Shakespeare. They already have their answer to the S-4. Nobody's using them, but they have had their own version for a long time.
I think the more interesting question is Why aren't ETC and Strand trying to compete with Altman when it comes to fresnels, strips and Cyc lights? As was mentioned in a thread a while back wouldn't it be great if ETC made a real fresnel that you could pop an HPL 575 into and have one lamp to stock in your inventory. Altman is still very much the king of the not so sexy (strip and wash light) end of the conventional instrument world and I think they are quite happy to be there. Remember that the 360 was the most popular instrument on the market 20 some years ago. I think perhaps after getting their clocks cleaned by that upstart ETC they are perhaps a little conservative in their business model now.
Altman's future appears to be the connection with Colorkinetics and their LED par. ETC and Strand don't have an LED instrument yet do they? Altman's has been making them for what 3 years now? The Altman booth at LDI was all about the LED PAR. I wanted to get some info on strips and other gear and it just wasn't there. So my guess is that they are comfortable with what they already do really well and instead are focusing on taking the lead in a new direction with LED technology.

I think the reason for that is that designing a fresnel around the HPL will be a tough bill to fill. The reason the parnel has such an odd field is because of the physical design of the lamp and how it interacts with the optics of the unit. Remember, the S4 was designed around the HPL, not the other way around.

#### ship

##### Senior Team Emeritus
Hmm, a re-introduction of the Altman #101... doubt it. PC fixtures don't have the market in the US to which Altman mainly sells to. I have no idea of where Altman is going - have not had a really discussion with anyone there in a few years.

Doubt also any dichroic coated lenses for any of the fixture line. Perhaps at some point the S-6 will be re-done in correcting any design problems and in going with some TBA lamp I'm not aware of yet but is probably under development. Or perhaps they are going "fast fit" based for the next generation in Lekos. In general, the Leko market has been quiet a bit long since the last concept in them. Heck, a ETC S-4 Leko is for all intensive purposes about 15 years old now? Heard in the grape vine about a new lamp under development for the HPL series - don't know if it was development or a TBA product for it or something else in the end. Perhaps Altman is also working on something new. We certainly would not hear about it until it's ready - otherwise the competition would be all over the science in keeping up. As per the S-4 verses S-6 in development, a year can be all the difference in the world as to what brand or item people use. This much at very least during that year as the sole supplier, in re-cooping the R&D costs other manufacturers/copiers won't see immediately.

Curious, also if you note on the 3.5Q series Leko, they are for all intensive purposes MT series these days. Major simplification of the product in the wrong direction. That's a problem in that mini-can lamps suck and that is a dead lamp line for all but Home Depot customers in never seeing an upgraded Stage and Studio lamp for that type. On the other hand, inspite of a very inefficient lamp, it does have a huge range in wattage availble that normally maxes out at the maximum rated wattage for the fixture. Could be a safety thing. Could also be a T-4 lamp thing in having reflectors a bit more efficient but smaller in hole size thus so as not to have re-design the reflector for a larger T-6 lamp sized hole in it. This much less pay to re-UL list the fixture for the 575w/115v versions in it. Beyond the fixtures working with such lamps, Altman would have to re-UL list the fixture if they were to upgrade it's specifications. Perhaps they chose to discontinue the Medium Bi-Pin version given a lack of market and need to pay to have it's spec's updated.

Very likely on the other hand a medium bi-pin lamp (G-9.5/TP-22) base will still mount in the MT fixture without a problem - the base plate for the lamp base often is drilled out for both types of lamp base. Were I buying a new fixture, I would definately do medium bi-pin base.

#### gafftapegreenia

##### CBMod
CB Mods
I sometimes hope am American company will make a P/C again. From what I've heard the Selecon P/C's have been recieving great reviews. I think they could have success in making a modern Pebble Convex acccessible to the American market, and being Altman it would be less expensive than the Selecon, a sort of "middle of the road" P/C. Wishful thinking, maybe, but makes sense to me at least if Altman is staying on the 'conventional' route. At least we could have one more option to play with here in the States.

But maybe before that happens ETC will finally admit it and just make a Fresnel.

#### icewolf08

##### CBMod
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Not to further hijack this thread, but just because Selecon isn't based in the US doesn't mean you can't buy their products, there are plenty of US dealers.

#### gafftapegreenia

##### CBMod
CB Mods
Ok ok I don't mean to bash Selecon, I'd easily buy their products. I just want them to be more easily accessible here in the U.S., maybe I'm just blind then.

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#### gafftaper

Senior Team
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I got two Selecon Rama PC's last year to try them out. Paid about $800 for two after shipping... yeah OUCH. They are a really interesting light with many potential uses but that's a lot to pay. As far as the PC market in the U.S. What about the Strand "PC and Fresnel" instruments. I've personally never used one. But I'm curious what they are like. #### ship ##### Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member In theory if you put a 6x12 or 6x16 lens in a 6" Fresnel fixture, you have a PC fixture. A real basic sense but one that should have an effective outcome. No, I don't remember which side out for sure, think it's convex out however. Did that PC/Fresnel swap a lot with some old 4.1/2" Kliegl fixtures... just as crappy of a light either way. One was hard edged, the other soft, neither optically given the fixture useful. IN a 65Q, who knows. Perhaps a good experiment since the 65Q is a better fixture. Than again, perhaps not, the 4.1/2" Kliegls were longer in body and no doubt origionally designed to be PC spots and not Fresnels. Option than in if the 65Q is too short is to Gam Wrap or remove the reflector and see what it does with a PC lens. Beyond that, yes the euro market and pebble glass, much less me not being against trying fixture types. Until such things become really used and popular or until designers start requesting them and the say Selcon fixtures get a lot of sales, I would doubt anyone here would make them. Perhaps L&E or Times Square, or you could get a job with any of them in bringing the fixture to market and starting a market up for them. For the most part, it's either the inventor or person with neck on the line, or market following trend. Market usually follows trend and it's often reverse of inverse trends to it. A few days after where I work sold off all of it's AF-1000 strobe fixtures in it's active inventory due to in-activity, it had to rent a bunch of them for some show wanting them. A few years after they got rid of their Altman Beam projectors - my boss was up in his attic digging a few out for a show. A few years after Altman discontinued the beam projector, it suddenly became a really popular lighting fixture for all of about one year in the touring industry.... sort of a retro thing I suppose. Skip one year afterwards from that touring season however an Wyborn comes out with their own brand new version of a beam projector. Beam projector is back and Altman is no doubt kicking themselves for discontinuing it as a fixture type, much less a follow spot type that some tours in the past have had me modify the fixtures into once scrollers, counter weight, handles etc. are added. Become a big famous designer in starting a trend and use the PC, or work for a place in sticking your neck out, or go the ETC route in starting from scratch. That's about your options. Side note, today I saw my first 6" fresnel that was lamped with a mini-can lamp. A customer brought in a fixture for advice in re-wiring. Fist step, bag and cut off the asbestos whip - plug and all. bye bye and open face plugs are against code anyway in a not attempting to save it further answer. Theater was using Non-Nema 20A-125/250v twist lock 3-pin plugs. New/used plugs are much cheaper than any chances for your health in attempting to save the plug. We went on from there on how to. Believe it was some form of square Berkley / Colortran fixture. I have seen a RSC version from Kliegl, multitudes of medium pre-focus, never knew there was a mini-can version. That has to give out a really crappy light comperable to that of the RSC version. Most unusual I found this fixture in using the lamp type I really really hate in giving a really bad light output and dependability... #### gafftapegreenia ##### CBMod CB Mods I got two Selecon Rama PC's last year to try them out. Paid about$800 for two after shipping... yeah OUCH. They are a really interesting light with many potential uses but that's a lot to pay.

That was really the point I was trying to make. I'd love to have some P/C's to play with, but can't justify spending $800, I am aboout to be a college student and all. Now,$300-\$400 would be more ideal for me. Yes, they wouldn't be as awesome as the Selecons, but if they could at the very least meet 65Q standards I'd be pleased. Maybe I'll just find some 65Q shells missing their lens on eBay and get creative.

#### gafftaper

##### Senior Team
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The Selecon PC has a frosted glass... maybe pebbled... not exactly sure what it's called. It gives it a really nice soft look.

#### gafftapegreenia

##### CBMod
CB Mods
I believe it's called a Pebble Lens, thus P/C stands for Pebble-Convex. It was introduced because to beam of a true Plano Convex isn't very ideal because it has the rainbow effect on the edges. The only company I can think of still making a true Plano-Convex is Robert Juliat. Of course, all those old P/C spotlights from the 20's, 30's, 40's and 50's were Plano-Convex and low on output, giving P/C's a bad name in the US.

One other thing, what is a Prism-Convex? Just a step lens?

#### gafftaper

##### Senior Team
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Wow you would do great on Jeapordy if the category was "P.C. lenses". Never heard of Prism-Convex but it sort of makes sense that it would be a stepped lens.