Word clock signal -- ADAT vs BNC?

[jkowtko]

I've recently purchased a Yamaha 01v96v2 mixer with ADAT expansion cards and 2 or 3 Behringer ADA8000s connected to it, both input and output.

Initial tests show that using the ADAT wordclock mastered from the mixer seems to work fine.

Any comments on using ADAT vs BNC for the word clock? I've heard ADAT wordclocks are not as stable as BNC. But I'd rather not have to buy BNC cables unless absolutely necessary.

Thanks. John

 

[DaveySimps]

I have used both the ADAT and BNC with great success on the Yamaha boards, although it was the LS9-32 and M7CL not he O1V. I will admit I have only used the time code functions a few times, but I had no problems what so ever.

~Dave

 

[avkid]

BNC cables are actually quite cheap if you decide to go that way:
http://www.showmecables.com/viewItem.asp?idProduct=2788

 

[SHARYNF]

It is like the advice I gave you re cheap cables for the adat interface, for the small additional cost you wind up with a better, more reliable system, IMO it makes no sense buying a quality system and then skimping on the interfacing cables especially since we are not looking at high cost items

BNC will give you a more reliable clock which will reduce the likely hood of pops and clicks which are caused by clock issues during the interfacing of the various behringer to yamaha connections.

75 ohm bnc cables are pretty cheap.
Sharyn

 

[jkowtko]

Okay, thanks, that was the info I was looking for. I'll pick up some BNC cables (and a couple of T's and a terminator) as well.

 

[SHARYNF]

Make sure that you use a 75 ohm terminator, there are 50 ohm terminators from the old ethernet days, but word clock uses 75 ohm.

Over time, if you started to do recording the next step up in all this is to get an independant word clock source and distribution so that each device.
Just to explain a bit further, make the O1v96 the master, si in DIO/Setup set the clock on INTERNAL inthe Yamaha, then run the clock to each of the Behringers, use t's (75 ohm) and then on the final one use the terminator. The reason you need this is that if you tried to use the adat as the source of clock using the 01v96 you would need to connect the adat OUTPUT of the Yamaha to the Behringers (clock flows with adat from source to device assuming Yamaha as the clock master) and you probably are not going to do this.

Over time the best setup is to actually have an external source of clock and use a home run distribution to each of the devices Yamaha/3 Behringers etc, but this gets expensive. I'd get quality cables, make them all the same length and go from there for minimizing possible problems

Sharyn

 

[Chris15]

I have used both the ADAT and BNC with great success on the Yamaha boards, although it was the LS9-32 and M7CL not he O1V. I will admit I have only used the time code functions a few times, but I had no problems what so ever.

~Dave

I think we need to clarify that time code and word clock are not the same...

I made 75 ohm BNC cable precisely for word clock last week. From memory, it was headed for use with Optocore. As you noted in your other thread, it's probably worthwhile to spend a little extra and get decent cables else I suspect you may find yourself cursing them... Oh, and PLEASE don't borrow 50 ohm coax from either redundant networks or the RF guys...

 

[jkowtko]

BNC cables are actually quite cheap if you decide to go that way:
http://www.showmecables.com/viewItem.asp?idProduct=2788

Philip, the BNC connectors here look good. the Toslink seems a bit expensive. Did you get yours elsewhere? I was recommended monoprice.com which seems to have sturdy looking cables at a good price. However since I will be bundling 6 (yes, three ADA8000s) plus the BNC in a 12 foot "snake" I'd like to get something with thinner than 8mm cable on it. Would also like to get the endcaps that are harnessed to the cable. Any suggestions there?

Thanks. John

 

[avkid]

I got the household cables at Radio Shack.
The MonoPrice.com selections seem suspiciously under priced to me.
I would check with a reputable industry firm such as Markertek or BSW.

 

[avkid]

the Toslink seems a bit expensive.

Toslink is still relatively new as connectors go, and fiber optic splicing is much more complicated than stripping and soldering copper.

 

[SHARYNF]

Are you sure you need 6 cables, I am not sure what you are going to be able to do with the additional channels of LINE level output via the adat feeds. I don't have a 01v96 here but i would check to make sure what you can do with them. In general you use the ADAT outs from all the cards in the Yamaha to record directly via adat, I am not sure, but you need to check as to just how flexible the routing is on assigning ins, auxes and busses out via the adat ports.
My recomendat is to get some techflex and wrapthe bundle
http://www.coolerguys.com/flexo6.html

Sharyn

 

[jkowtko]

Sharon, right now I have a 5.1 speaker config and often run 2 FX speakers somewhere on stage. So for starters I need 8 outs. Adding any stage or booth monitors and a recording device and I'll need more, so two ADAT outs for sure. Add direct outs for a recording board (or PC) where I want to mix more than two recording input tracks, and I'll likely need all three ADAT outs.

I figure if I have the three ADAT units, buying 6 cables vs 5 isn't going to break my pocket book ... plus that gives me a backup cable just in case ... so since I have the outboard I/O, might as well hook it up!

The patching on the board seems pretty flexible. One of the really nice things about digital patching (at least with Yamaha) is that you can assign a single physical input to as many logical input channels as you like, and you can assign a single logical output channel to as many physical output channels as you like. When I tested my ADAT outs I had LR assigned to 8 ADAT out pairs all at once ... seemed to work just fine (even with the $3 cheapo cables).

I'll check out the techflex.

Thanks. John

 

[avkid]

seemed to work just fine (even with the $3 cheapo cables).

Of course it did, but the question is for how long will it continue like that.

 

[jkowtko]

Of course it did, but the question is for how long will it continue like that.

Yep, that's why I'm buying better cables .. one tug or wrong step, and suddenly a silent production! Of course you can pop any toslink connector out of the board if you snag the cable in the right direction.

With a small operational budget per musical though, I can easily afford to buy a new set of tosklink cables for each production if absolutely needed.

 

[jkowtko]

Sharon, right now I have a 5.1 speaker config and often run 2 FX speakers somewhere on stage. So for starters I need 8 outs. Adding any stage or booth monitors and a recording device and I'll need more, so two ADAT outs for sure. Add direct outs for a recording board (or PC) where I want to mix more than two recording input tracks, and I'll likely need all three ADAT outs.
I figure if I have the three ADAT units, buying 6 cables vs 5 isn't going to break my pocket book ... plus that gives me a backup cable just in case ... so since I have the outboard I/O, might as well hook it up!
The patching on the board seems pretty flexible. One of the really nice things about digital patching (at least with Yamaha) is that you can assign a single physical input to as many logical input channels as you like, and you can assign a single logical output channel to as many physical output channels as you like. When I tested my ADAT outs I had LR assigned to 8 ADAT out pairs all at once ... seemed to work just fine (even with the $3 cheapo cables).
I'll check out the techflex.
Thanks. John

Sorry, I forgot to add -- I'm going to try running 100% through the ADAT interface. With 12 foot cables this will let me place the board a couple rows out into the audience and leave the rack gear in the booth, so I can get a better read on the sound during tech week.

Or should I get 25 foot cables? They're only 10-20% more than 12 footers ... I was just concerned with the bulk of stuffing these into my rack case when not in use.

 

[SHARYNF]

I'd get the length you are going to need, if the longer ones will work better get them, I'd make sure to mark the connections, and probably not leave them plugged in so you might wind up storing them in a different case.

My comments on the outs are that you need to make sure it will work for you in your application, if I recall the problem you will have is that you can assign all these to the adat outs but you will not have an easy way to control the level of all the outs individually, I THINK that the ADA 8000 only has control on the INPUTS not on the outputs. So I would just carefully look at not only the connection and flow but the CONTROL.

Sharyn

 

[jkowtko]

I'd get the length you are going to need, if the longer ones will work better get them, I'd make sure to mark the connections, and probably not leave them plugged in so you might wind up storing them in a different case.
My comments on the outs are that you need to make sure it will work for you in your application, if I recall the problem you will have is that you can assign all these to the adat outs but you will not have an easy way to control the level of all the outs individually, I THINK that the ADA 8000 only has control on the INPUTS not on the outputs. So I would just carefully look at not only the connection and flow but the CONTROL.
Sharyn

Sharon, I'll be using all of the ADAT outs as standard Aux or Group outs (the 01v96 has 8 aux, 8 groups, and LR, all under fader control, master layer) -- so the board will have fader control over them. The PC with it's 8 channels of music and FX will have to go through the board input channels first. If I use direct outs to connect to another board for recording, those ADATs are connect to the channel direct outs, again just like an analog board.

One thing I will try some day is to install an ADAT card in the PC and run 8 channels of digital audio directly from Sound Cue System to the 01v96 ... eliminating the analog equipment in the middle. But for now I'm just going to hook this all up like an analog board using the ADA8000s with 24 mic/line inputs, up to 18 fader-controlled outputs, and some direct outs for recording.

I'm starting to get excited ... this board has a lot of capacity, not to mention all of the dynamics and EQ everywhere And surround panning ... can't forget that ... I'm sure I'll find a neat use for it somewhere.