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Would you hire him?

Discussion in 'General Advice' started by Hughesie, Oct 8, 2007.

  1. Hughesie

    Hughesie Well-Known Member

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    17yr old sound engineer

    Qualifications
    Diploma of live theatre

    Experience
    5 years of semi pro sound work

    would you hire him?

    purely hyperthetical
     
  2. soundlight

    soundlight Well-Known Member

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    What kinda "Diploma of Live Theatre"?
     
  3. Hughesie

    Hughesie Well-Known Member

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  4. avkid

    avkid Not a New User Fight Leukemia

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    I'd hire almost anyone.
    You can wrap cables, correct?
     
  5. Hughesie

    Hughesie Well-Known Member

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    yeah i can but NY is a long way away from me

    bugger
     
  6. Logos

    Logos Well-Known Member

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    Hey You've got a better qualification than I have. And I'm 56. I've only got Cert 4.

    OK so that ignores nearly 40 years practical experience Oh and my Degree in Educational Theatre, never mind.
     
  7. Van

    Van CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

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    I'd rather have a kid with those qualifications, and a good work ethic, than 3 guys with Masters degrees who think they know it all.
     
  8. Hughesie

    Hughesie Well-Known Member

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    i'd hire him, but that's because i am this person

    well i will be this person, in one or two years.
    i just wanted to know if it meant anything to have a qualification

    i think it's easier to say that "i have 6 years of experiance and not being able to prove it :)"
     
  9. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

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    Hughesie,
    We've been debating creating some sort of technical certification program. The problem is that it doesn't guarantee you anything. I think you are just as likely to get hired with the degree as without. As Phil said... can you coil a cable? Odds are you are going to get a pretty basic job no matter what and from there you have to prove yourself.

    Gaff's rule... There are three factors that go into getting you a good tech job: hard work, education, and who you know/luck. The more education you have the less hard work and luck you need to get a job. However, the more experience you have, the more people you know and opportunities it creates (luck), and the education becomes unimportant. I've talked to professionals in several of the biggest theaters in town. Some have degrees some don't. If you want to be a top designer or get a job at a manufacturer... you should pursue all the education you can. If you just want to work on the road for a while then get a cool gig at a big house in town... it's far less important than hard work and who you know.

    The T.D. in one of the biggest theaters in the region started as a summer stock temporary carpenter with no degree. He impressed them and got a job full time, he worked about 10 years gaining the respect of everyone on the staff, along the way he took a couple of management classes. When the position opened he got the job. No degree. There's a lot of hard work, who you know, and luck involved in his path to that job but education would not have helped him. Clearly many people applied for that job with big degrees. But the inside guy who worked hard got the job.

    A little over a year ago I heard that one of the largest community theaters in the area was looking for tech help. A former student of mine was looking to take his tech career more seriously. I put in a phone call saying, "Hi, you don't know me but ____ (who works for the theater) and ____ (who he knows ) are good friends of mine so you can check my credentials. ____ told me you are looking for tech help. A former student of mine is looking for some work. He's a skilled sound technician and has a very brilliant mind. He's interested in expanding his world into lighting and S.M. work as well. He knows what he's doing in those areas but has little experience. If your interested give him a call." My former student is now making $16,000 a year at a part time Production Manager. He's not making a lot yet, but he's 20 years old, has no degree, and that's enough of a base that he can survive making a few hundred or so working on shows at night. A few years in this position and he'll be able to turn it into a real production manager job. That's how it's done. No degree... just who you know and the luck of one phone call.

    I work at a college and I always encourage education. It's good for your mind. I go every summer and take some classes to expand my knowledge. But in the case of technical theater, it isn't your golden ticket to success. I like the idea of a certification program because it's short and less expensive than a full degree program. It says you know all the basics now get out there and do it. I think if I was getting a masters degree in theater I would be pretty disappointed to get out there and find out just how many people have no theater degree at all. Oh yeah... I have a Bachelors Degree in History and a Masters degree in Education... yep I'm a college T.D. with no theater degree. Been running sound since 5th grade (that's... crap 26 years) started lights and sets in 9th grade. Spent a bunch of years volunteering in college hanging out with an old T.D. who knew everything. Got a job as a high school drama teacher and from there I've made the transition to college. I've recently added 15 graduate level credits in tech theater classes to my transcript... but no degree in theater at all.

    One more thing... there's got to be somewhere you can volunteer. What about summer stock. Summer children's theater programs. Go to the nearest theater type place and say "Hi I want to work for you, I'll do whatever you want for free. Can I coil cable? Get you your coffee? Got a floor to sweep? A wall to paint? Screws to sort?" If you are a hard worker and you are good, all you need is a foot in the door. If they like you you'll find all kinds of opportunities.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2007
  10. Hughesie

    Hughesie Well-Known Member

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    you make a very fair point there gaff, altough i feel that i could just find work, i reckon it is still better to have a qualification, don't feel that i didn't read and take in what you said, trust me every piece of advice helps. but you have remember that it's not the great US down here, it's australia and im sure when logos returns to this post he will agree with me, so will phantomd if he comes back. australia despite having a lot of courses most end with students go into dj'ing or club work. altough i say this, i know that once i get some more contacts there is work, starting out is the hardest part if you google melbourne theatres you will find a lot of them. also i have connection to sound company that i have worked with a lot and the head of the company is ex student of my school and at the beginning of the year i asked him a similar question to the one i am asking you kind people, so i do have that contact. the only thing stopping from working there currently is the fact im lacking in transport, untill next year i can not get from gig to gig (im 17, and i need to be 18 for a solo propabtioners licence) otherwise i would be throwing myself into the field.
     
  11. Logos

    Logos Well-Known Member

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    I think I've already told you this before but if you were in Adelaide I would have some (not a lot I'm a very small business) work for you. I like your exoressed attitude and your approach. I know the qualification (I teach to Cert 4 level) and its a good one.
    You need to be prepared to work hard and build networks.
    Gafftaper has already said everything else.

    And Van, I agree with you. Give me a Hughsie or a Charc anytime over some overeducated know it all. My qualifications have all come late in life when people started asking "But what qualifications do you have?" and I decided to get some. I needed them to teach in this country anyway and I wanted to.

    And Hughsie is right, unless you have been around for a long time paper is important in Aus. At my age with my experience the question I am most often asked is still "But what sort of qualification do you have?"
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2007
  12. Hughesie

    Hughesie Well-Known Member

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    oh that feels really good :):mrgreen:

    and logos if i could get there i would :)

    experiance is important and i am trying to get work, i will talk to my theatre tech teacher (theatre manager) who was a truss spot operator in......adelade...wow hey logos i will pm you his name and see if you know him, he grew up their and worked there for a lot of his time before moving to melbourne
     
  13. len

    len Well-Known Member

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    Not until he/she is 21.
     
  14. Hughesie

    Hughesie Well-Known Member

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    yep but probationers is ok
     
  15. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

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    Looking back on it I don't think I concluded my message well... so take two...

    Education is good. It's also expensive and may not be your golden ticket to a career. Hard work right now can be just as effective of a way of getting a career. What do I recommend to my students? Get some good basic training and then start working. If you feel the need to continue on from there and get more education GREAT. It's never bad to know things. Just understand the reality of the market and don't believe you are guaranteed a better job because you get a Masters degree. For some that basic training is in High school, for some it might be a certification program, for some it might be volunteering at a theater working at the side of an old pro, for some it's a college degree, and for our lucky young friend at "all things theater" it's in the family business.

    So for your case... IF that certification program is well known and respected in Melbourne it sounds like a good way to get that basic education. If the program is known and respected in Melbourne is a critical point to this whole discussion that none of us can answer. Do you have any connections that you could call and say, "Is this program something people know about and respect in the industry?" No matter what as soon as you are legal to drive I would be out there trying to get a job coiling cable, making coffee, sweeping a shop, or sorting screws... anything to get your foot in the door.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2007
    Hughesie and derekleffew like this.
  16. Logos

    Logos Well-Known Member

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    The course that Hughsie is talking about is well known and respected all over Australia. It is a national qualification taught to a verifiable standard and is true vocational training largely hands on. I teach to the level below (Cert 4) in Adelaide and before anyone says anything derogatory the Diploma course is not offered in Adelaide.
    As it is only a one year course which is notionally full time you should do it Hughsie. You will find that there is time for you to work part time in the industry and the lecturers on that course should be current working professionals giving you the opportunity to network in the industry.
     
  17. Hughesie

    Hughesie Well-Known Member

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    firstly i would like to say thank you for all the help you have been giving me, it makes a daunting task seem much easier when you speak to people in the field you are trying to get into. i would also like state my dream, i know it's way out but everyone must have something to work for. my dream is to work sound of cirque du soleil in Las Vegas currently it's a fair away dream but i like to aim high, i see each stage (like getting a qualification) as a one small step closer to that
     
  18. Logos

    Logos Well-Known Member

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    Don't forget that Cirque have a base in Aus and regularly employ here. Then you impress the hell out of everyone and apply for a transfer.
     
  19. Hughesie

    Hughesie Well-Known Member

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    simple dreams......
     
  20. Pie4Weebl

    Pie4Weebl Well-Known Member Fight Leukemia

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    A handful of people who I go to school with are all out of vegas and its not all its cracked up to be from what they say. Consider that a show can run 10 years, could you image doing the same show for that long, it would become a job like any other and it turns a lot of people into "lifetime spot-ops" and crotechty old IA guys afraid of new tech.

    But of coarse that's all second hand.
     

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