I only clove hitch multiple runs of multicable, everything else I am able to get enough of a bite on it with the 'shoelace' knot.
Wrapping vs. tying cable
- Thread starterkiilljoy
- Start date
You obviously don't know how to quickly remove a clove hitch or the clove hitches were tied incorrectly.
Clove hitches come down lickety split quick.
I respectfully disagree. They most certainly do not "hold fine"--they give way really easily when you end up having to walk on that pipe/truss/beam/etc. A clove hitch (usually) takes no more than a double tug. I'd most certainly rather have strike take 5-10 minutes longer than have a bundle drop off a pipe under my foot in the dark 25' in the air.
--Sean
I always use a shoelace knot and have never had one come out, even the run where there are 10-15 cables in it. With that said, I typically wrap the tieline around the pipe and cable twice. Also, I have found more and more that I am using e-tape and zipties. E-tape is great because it is cheap, and if you are working on truss you can use grey tape to hide it.
How do you keep the clove hitch from coming undone without tension on the line?
All the tieline I use is 15"-18", Anything longer just becomes a waste of tieline. I'm always cutting longer pieces so they don't have more than 6" of excess after tying.
We always use shoelace knots, Everyone knows how to tye it and since we always have different actors on the crew, It doesn't make any sense to add to the list of things we have to teach them (if they don't want to learn any tech). I'm all for tielining cable although I do sometimes end up wrapping it if its in our overstage lighting position which is only accessable via ladder, scafolding, or some rather dangerous climbing.
I see now that we are talking about two very different situations. In your case a clove hitch would be totally appropriate. The show I was referring to took place in a theatre with a standard fly system. No one would be walking on the battens unless their last name was Wallenda. Plus it was a teaching theatre with half the crew being acting apprentices. A badly done clove hitch is a scary thing. ;-)
One of the situations I'm referring to is on a batten.
The point is that when you tie something up you want it to stay there. A clove hitch keeps the tension on the cable as you finish with a bow, a "shoelace knot" does not.
And for whoever above asked: you tie a clove hitch with both ends the same length, then tie the "second half" of the "shoelace knot" (double slip knot?) that keeps the ends cleaned up.
36" because you want to be able to pull on both ends (and have enough to tie the bow) when wrapped around 3 or 4 mults, a breakout, and maybe some data cables. Just tying a clove hitch on bare 1.5" ID pipe will use ~20" of tieline.
--Sean
Yes yes it does make sense. It's called teaching. Most students don't want to learn basic algebra in HS...does that mean we shouldn't teach it to them?
Seriously this is why the US's college standards are dropping par.
The term you're looking for is half-hitch.
I use a lot of booms (i.e., vertical pipe with a base) and there's just no good way to deal with excess that I've found. Typically, I'll lay the pipe horizontal, attach the fixtures and tape the cords down the pipe a couple times, leaving some slack for focus. Unless I have right arms (which I typically don't need) the dimmer usually lays on the floor so I have 2 - 4 a/c cords running down. Excess gets coiled and laid on the floor. Sometimes we'll cover it with fabric, but not always.
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This thread is proving what I tell my students...in theatre there is rarely one way to do anything. In the 27(ugh!) years I've been using shoelace knots to tie my cables I've never had one fall, but that doesn't mean that I would tell anyone they are wrong for using clove hitches. The fact that I find them to slow things down come strike time is a personal preference, and if I were working for you and you mandated the clove hitch that's what I'd do. Prior to this thread if someone had suggested using electrical tape to secure cable I would have objected, but it appears that it is an accepted method on some hangs. Whatever works, and is not unsafe, would be a good philosophy. Take heed, younglings, and avoid absolutes when you can. 
Rick T.
Rick T.
Very good point....let me go ahead and add this bit of wisdom to it for the younger participants:This thread is proving what I tell my students...in theatre there is rarely one way to do anything. In the 27(ugh!) years I've been using shoelace knots to tie my cables I've never had one fall, but that doesn't mean that I would tell anyone they are wrong for using clove hitches. The fact that I find them to slow things down come strike time is a personal preference, and if I were working for you and you mandated the clove hitch that's what I'd do. Prior to this thread if someone had suggested using electrical tape to secure cable I would have objected, but it appears that it is an accepted method on some hangs. Whatever works, and is not unsafe, would be a good philosophy. Take heed, younglings, and avoid absolutes when you can.
Rick T.
Just because it's the way you've always done it doesn't mean its right.
Which is the moral of the ham story.
You've never heard the ham story?
A young couple are married. She cooks a ham for the first time. She cuts the ends off. The husband asks why she does it.
"Because that's the way my mom taught me."
So the husband asks mom.
"Because that's the way my mom taught me." was his mother-in-law's reply.
So the husband asks his grandmother-in-law.
"Because the ham was too big for the pan."
porkchop
Well-Known Member
I don't have anything close to 27 years of experience, more like 7, but I've never never been in a situation were I felt a DOUBLE wrap around the pipe and then a shoelace knot was even close to coming off the pipe. A single wrap and a shoelace knot on the other hand is really unreliable. That's why I believe in the two cubit rule. IMHO any tie less than 24" is pretty much useless for securing pipe.
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