If you're doing a double wrap around the cable and pipe anyway, it adds less than two seconds to turn it into a clove hitch.
Wrapping vs. tying cable
- Thread starterkiilljoy
- Start date
Funny...I was about to say the same thing.
Wrapping cable about a pipe involves the use of longer lengths of cable, extra amounts of time to un-do much less trace or replace circuits, nightmares if you need to move something say a light fixture even a foot over to the left in the air, and a large amount of time to un-wrap especially if stuff was added later. Avoid it if possible.
On the other hand, say one wrap say every five or ten feet during hang and initial wiring will keep the cable for the most part off the fixtures and get it in the area without need to come back once all done for the tie lining of the cable to the pipe yet.
Not a fan persay either of tie lining the cable to the pipe either without wrapping it because it’s either hanging down in the way while adjusting or focusing but not yet set or not managable while hanging. This plus you add a fixture, what do you do un-tie/re-tie all along the line or take the quick and overtie in having bundles of cables tied on as you go? Also gets to be a mess but at least easier during strike.
Best I think in doing a few wraps to both support so that bow tie knot don’t slip as it will in sagging and making it easier during install, but not wrapping instead of tie line.
By the way unless a large amount of cable or especially single conductor cable, don’t worry about any electromagnetic fields... ain’t a normal concern but if it is as normal practice, for coils over-under them and keep the coils as opposed to in a linear along the pipe coil, coils on the ends of the pipe as large as you can reasonably that they won’t snag or get in the way.
Brings up another problem - coils on the ends of a pipe in both weight and something that is problematic. Where possible space them out and distribute the weight - given a proper length of cable normally is not available. Keep it neat but I tend to as opposed to one coil of coils, like to spread out such stuff if not even mark each of them to make it easier to troubleshoot.
In the end, remember trouble shooting a circuit, moving a fixture and strike. Tie line, that’s cheap but tie line alone to support a bunch of cables probably insufficient.
In tieing them up, clove hitch than bowtie the knot. Easy to remove, slips a bit less in carrying the weight and is a bit stronger given the SWL of tie line in a dynamic load situation.
On the other hand, say one wrap say every five or ten feet during hang and initial wiring will keep the cable for the most part off the fixtures and get it in the area without need to come back once all done for the tie lining of the cable to the pipe yet.
Not a fan persay either of tie lining the cable to the pipe either without wrapping it because it’s either hanging down in the way while adjusting or focusing but not yet set or not managable while hanging. This plus you add a fixture, what do you do un-tie/re-tie all along the line or take the quick and overtie in having bundles of cables tied on as you go? Also gets to be a mess but at least easier during strike.
Best I think in doing a few wraps to both support so that bow tie knot don’t slip as it will in sagging and making it easier during install, but not wrapping instead of tie line.
By the way unless a large amount of cable or especially single conductor cable, don’t worry about any electromagnetic fields... ain’t a normal concern but if it is as normal practice, for coils over-under them and keep the coils as opposed to in a linear along the pipe coil, coils on the ends of the pipe as large as you can reasonably that they won’t snag or get in the way.
Brings up another problem - coils on the ends of a pipe in both weight and something that is problematic. Where possible space them out and distribute the weight - given a proper length of cable normally is not available. Keep it neat but I tend to as opposed to one coil of coils, like to spread out such stuff if not even mark each of them to make it easier to troubleshoot.
In the end, remember trouble shooting a circuit, moving a fixture and strike. Tie line, that’s cheap but tie line alone to support a bunch of cables probably insufficient.
In tieing them up, clove hitch than bowtie the knot. Easy to remove, slips a bit less in carrying the weight and is a bit stronger given the SWL of tie line in a dynamic load situation.
On tie line, I buy 100' spools that get used on most shows. Got a one off, it gets for the most part a roll. Need more, what ya up to in perhaps correcting technique. Amazingly cheap to buy that length of especially un-waxed tie line that’s a bit less long life given ends fray easier but for the most part a throw away in once used and a bit left on the spool, it becomes an over the shoulder wrap than cut at the top pre-cut tie line ready for use.
Note the concept of just under the arm “wrong way of wrapping cable” for doing tie line. You will get a length of tie line once cut at the top somewhere between 18" and 30" long dependant upon what angle your arm was at. Simple done and much faster than feeding it into pegs.
On gaffers tape / electrical tape... fine as a loom of cable laid than tied to but not so much if wanting your cable back in good shape without slits in it. Even the professional IA locals have problems removing tape from cable without slitting the cable jacket. Where possible and unless you need it ultra clean, avoid taping.
Also done cable ties... quick fast and cheap. Don’t mind them so much as opposed to tie line other than should you have to move or remove something. One would tend to want to use side cutting pliers of some decent sort to remove them which could be in short supply during strike as a limitation. Knives with cable ties tends to get dangerous. By nature such cable is not “permanent” or it would be in conduit, so one should never have an application for permanent cable tie install. On the other hand should some circuit be temporary long term such as a work light or data cable on a pipe... perhaps that’s a good idea in making it less able to remove. Use the beefy 175# cable ties so its not easy to remove if doing that concept.
Note the concept of just under the arm “wrong way of wrapping cable” for doing tie line. You will get a length of tie line once cut at the top somewhere between 18" and 30" long dependant upon what angle your arm was at. Simple done and much faster than feeding it into pegs.
On gaffers tape / electrical tape... fine as a loom of cable laid than tied to but not so much if wanting your cable back in good shape without slits in it. Even the professional IA locals have problems removing tape from cable without slitting the cable jacket. Where possible and unless you need it ultra clean, avoid taping.
Also done cable ties... quick fast and cheap. Don’t mind them so much as opposed to tie line other than should you have to move or remove something. One would tend to want to use side cutting pliers of some decent sort to remove them which could be in short supply during strike as a limitation. Knives with cable ties tends to get dangerous. By nature such cable is not “permanent” or it would be in conduit, so one should never have an application for permanent cable tie install. On the other hand should some circuit be temporary long term such as a work light or data cable on a pipe... perhaps that’s a good idea in making it less able to remove. Use the beefy 175# cable ties so its not easy to remove if doing that concept.
We avoid cutting tape by leaving a flag, that is a piece of tape folded over. It doesn't have to be a lot, or super neat. Just enough to get at it later.
As for zip ties, I am against them because I think they create more pollution and garbage to be picked up than using tape does. And they definitely have to be cut. Most of the time the hands don't have a pair of cutters on the out. At least I don't. Tie line is good, and is reusable. If you take the time to collect it.
As for zip ties, I am against them because I think they create more pollution and garbage to be picked up than using tape does. And they definitely have to be cut. Most of the time the hands don't have a pair of cutters on the out. At least I don't. Tie line is good, and is reusable. If you take the time to collect it.
What I've found to be the safest way to use a knife with a cable tie, is to slide the knife under the tie so it catches, and then "flick" your wrist upward a bit. It's enough pressure so that the cable tie will break, but you don't have really any momentum behind the motion that could escape once the cable tie pressure is released.
I use electrical tape but use "one and a half wraps" so when you want to remove the cable, you pull on it and the tape snaps easily. Haven't had any cables damaged this way and the tape is not on long enough to leave a residue for most shows I do. You need to explain why it is "one and a half wraps" so the keen newcomers don't add several more wraps out of enthusiasm.
Removable cable ties are used less frequently as the tape is quicker to apply and does not leave a long excess sticking out.
Removable cable ties are used less frequently as the tape is quicker to apply and does not leave a long excess sticking out.
We use large cable ties to keep our multi ends on the pipe. I prefer to take them down with a pair of dykes as opposed to a knife. Its a bit quicker for me.
I cannot actually believe this thread has gone as long as it has.
FWIW, I have NEVER wrapped electrical cable around an object. That makes for a royal PITA to trouble shoot, add a cable or unit to a pipe, remove afterward, etc...
I have always used or seen used, either tie-line, electrical or friction tape, or in recent years - plastic cable ties.
The method we use is tie-line for cables getting attached to an object (including cables attached to boom/vertical objects as well as set units), where the cable will eventually get removed.
We used to bundle, and still will bundle 12/3 with friction tape for bundles being handled regularly.
Cable bundles STAYING bundled now get plastic tie wraps IF they are pipe to grid, etc... runs, and are not getting installed/struck, so as to not have to deal with the sharp edges of the cut-off piece of plastic.
I follow and have maintained these methods religiously so the crew always knows what to expect - if they see it tied with tie-line, then know they might end up removing it. Friction and tie-wraps they know are permenant.
This is also a standard I have seen with road shows, BTW.
Steve Bailey
Brooklyn College
FWIW, I have NEVER wrapped electrical cable around an object. That makes for a royal PITA to trouble shoot, add a cable or unit to a pipe, remove afterward, etc...
I have always used or seen used, either tie-line, electrical or friction tape, or in recent years - plastic cable ties.
The method we use is tie-line for cables getting attached to an object (including cables attached to boom/vertical objects as well as set units), where the cable will eventually get removed.
We used to bundle, and still will bundle 12/3 with friction tape for bundles being handled regularly.
Cable bundles STAYING bundled now get plastic tie wraps IF they are pipe to grid, etc... runs, and are not getting installed/struck, so as to not have to deal with the sharp edges of the cut-off piece of plastic.
I follow and have maintained these methods religiously so the crew always knows what to expect - if they see it tied with tie-line, then know they might end up removing it. Friction and tie-wraps they know are permenant.
This is also a standard I have seen with road shows, BTW.
Steve Bailey
Brooklyn College
FWIW, in the house I work part-time at, we hang on the flown-in pipe, cable the instruments, tie the squid...er, multi-breakout to the end of the pipe and then tie-line the cable to the pipe. My first week there, I received a quiet stone-faced "what are you doing?" once from the house master carp when I started to gaff a cable to a pipe--never did it again. Also, if our breakouts are close to the middle of the pipe and we have a long run of multi to the end, we'll tie-line it, plus make one "backward loop" in the multi and wrap it once over the end of the pipe, so the weight of the multi (dropped from the grid) isn't pulling exclusively on tie-line.
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