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Yamaha LS9 ?

Discussion in 'Sound, Music, and Intercom' started by JSFox, Oct 1, 2006.

  1. JSFox

    JSFox Active Member

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    Has anyone had a chance to look at this yet? There are quotes of under $8k for the larger 32 input frame (64 channels). M7CL lite?
     
  2. soundlight

    soundlight Well-Known Member

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    I saw it and I love the concept of a smaller digital console that has a 32-mic input frame, and capability for cobranet cards and other expansion cards. The 16 outputs also enables live theater mixing with different zones for sound effects. I also like the pricepoint! I have a feeling that this could show up in my college theater before long.
     
  3. NeilW

    NeilW Member

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    I got to see it at PLASA 2006, and it certainly looks like a great little desk. I had a quick demo on it and it certainly seems to have many likenesses with the bigger yamaha desks in terms of operating style, although with the obvious reduction in physical controls from something like the M7CL, some operations are slightly more complex or longer. For example, to adjust the eq on a channel you have to select the channel, then select the band (high, high mid, low mid or low) then you have physical controls for frequency, gain and bandwith. Likewise with the compressor/ gate section, only one control per dynamics unit, accompanied by the arrow keys and jog dial.
    Theres also the fact that the screen ISNT a touch screen; if you have used a console such as an M7CL, you may find yourself stabbing at the screen to select something, which doesnt work (as demonstrated by yamaha sales guy)

    There were some functions that seemed easier to me on a LS9 than an M7, in particular the aux to faders, which is simply a case of double clicking on the required aux select button, which is physical on the console rather than the screen as on the M7. It also has more user defined keys.

    For the market it is aimed at, i think the LS9 will be a sucess, because of the huge reductions in outboard gear needed; 4 FX and 8 channels of eq (flex 15 mode), comps and gates on everything, 4 band parametric on all inputs and busses... the list goes on! Throw in the recallability and the small package size, looks very interesting indeed! I wouldnt hesitate to use the smaller yamaha consoles after the success i've seen with M7 and Pm5Ds.

    Hope that is of some use, if you've got any specific questions i'll see what i can remember from the demo and the brochure ive got!

    Neil
     
  4. soundlight

    soundlight Well-Known Member

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    I think that you mentioned this, but I've got a specific question. Can you call up the levels of each mix buss for each channel? I know that with the 01V, you have "fader mode" buttons. You can have the faders represent the level of the main mix, or the level of any of the omni outs, depending on which button you puch. Can you have fader control of the aux/buss levels for individual channels? In other words, can each channel fader control the level of that channel to a buss other than the main LR buss? Now that I've rephrased the question five or six times, I'll see about getting an answer...
     
  5. NeilW

    NeilW Member

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    Yes you can! This is the sends on faders function. To the left hand side of the screen are 16 keys representing each of the 16 busses available in the console. If you double click one of these, the whole bank of faders below change into the channel sends to this buss. So, for example, you have a monitor mix on aux 1 and you need to turn up the vocal in it, you would double click the "mix 1" key, and the faders will move to represent the send levels from each channel to that mix. Its then a case of pushing up the channel fader for the vocal. Then press the same mix key again and the surface returns to the "normal" mode of mixing channels to the stereo buss.

    After reading through your question again, just to clarify, this is a global change, and from the time I had on it, i dont think that it is possible to swap individual faders to control different mixes simultaneously. However, I think that the complete bank swap makes it easy to see what is going where at what level, and is also a fast way of setting up monitor and effects mixes. Theres a couple of other things related to this that I didnt get the chance to test fully but which are of interest. Firstly, how the console handles stereo mixes; do you have to set one side at a time on the faders or do the faders control level and pan is set somewhere else?! Secondly, whether the LS9 follows the same as the other yamaha digital consoles, where selecting an aux also assigns it to the solo bus, which makes monitor mixing super fast.

    There is also the option of several layers in the LS9 (1-32, 33-64, master and custom). The master layer has all the output master level controls in one place, and as default, the 32 mic pres are patched to 1-32. You could however, also patch them to 33-64, and use the second layer as the sends to monitors with different eq and comps. The custom layer can apparently hold any combination of input and output functions but this was a function i didnt get to try out.

    Hope that is of some help
    Neil
     
  6. soundlight

    soundlight Well-Known Member

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    I would want it to be global! That's how it is on the 01V. This mixer is looking to be the perfect (and much needed) medium of a live console between the 01V and the M7CL. And since I'm used to the 01V from working in Performance Services here, and I've already read half the manual, learning the physical console would be rather easy! Thanks!
     
  7. NeilW

    NeilW Member

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    Ahh, if you want it global then it does what you need!
    It certainly seems to look ideal for the market between 01V and M7CL, particularly as it is a purpose designed live desk, rather than say, a DM200, which whilst workable, wasnt ever really ideal for live work. I think if you have used a yamaha digital console before, you will find the LS9 fairly easy to walk up and use, most things are right in front of you, or just a button press away. I spent about 20 mins with the surface at PLASA and would feel confident enough to use one in a live situation, although I have had some time on M7s and PM5s. A useful free tool is to download the yamaha studio manager program and the software for each of the digital consoles, dont think the LS9 is available yet, but when it is, it is helpful to see how things are laid out, and also allows you to set up your show in advance. This can then be transferred to the desk on a USB drive, or link the computer directly to the console through the network port.

    Neil
     
  8. soundlight

    soundlight Well-Known Member

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    Exactly...I think that the main point is that this is finally a reasonably priced Yamaha digital console that is designed for Live work! I got a quote on the 32 channel model for UNDER 8K! I'd better start earning the dough...
     
  9. NeilW

    NeilW Member

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    The other thing that hasnt been mentioned is what it actually sounds like (which is probably the most important thing)! There isnt any information in the brochure about whether the preamps are of the same variety as the M7CL or any of the smaller yamaha desks. I guess this is the type of thing that can only be established by a demonstration in a real world environment rather than a quick glance at a trade show. Would be interesting to hear from anyone who has actually done a gig with it, and maybe compare with the other desks from yamaha.

    Neil
     
  10. JSFox

    JSFox Active Member

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    I/O channel specs are the same as M7 so I assume they're using the same head amp. Input sampling freq is wider than M7 so the A/D and/or input algorithms are at least different (better?). THD, XTalk, FreqResp, Noise all appear to be the same.

    I like the onboard recording capability, though I really wish it could do more than 2 tracks. Even 4 would be a huge benefit.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2006
  11. Peter

    Peter Well-Known Member

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    This board CERTAINLY has my eye! For the price I havent been able to find anything else close, what would everyone else compare it to both by price and by features?
     
  12. jbeutt

    jbeutt Active Member

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    The closest thing is a TT24, which from the looks of the LS9 (more to come after this weekend), doesn't stand a chance.
     
  13. soundlight

    soundlight Well-Known Member

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    I agree that Yamaha is finally going to take over the market that Mackie is seeking.
     
  14. SHARYNF

    SHARYNF Well-Known Member

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    I also wish that they had expanded the recording capabilities If they had only added the ability for adat out it would have been great. The ability to assign the inputs to 8 16 24 or 32 channels of adat out would have made recording at the same time fantastic. We use Alesis HD24's so we would have loved this

    Sharyn
     
  15. soundlight

    soundlight Well-Known Member

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    On the 32 input/64 channel version you can get 2 16in/16out ADAT cards, thus having 32 inputs and/or 32 outputs of adat! You just have to get the adat cards from yamaha.
     
  16. jbeutt

    jbeutt Active Member

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    Ok, here's the skinny.

    Saw both boards (16 and 32) at AES today and I'm very impressed. You get the software set of the bigger M7CL console, but a far lower price point.

    There's not a whole lot I can tell you that you can't read on their website already. All I guess I can relate is the tactile experience. Nothing extraordinary to speak of. Yamaha delivered a fantastic interface.

    Faders are extremely responsive as are all knobs and controls.

    There's a very in depth software package with 4-band parametric as well as dynamics on each channel.

    It has a vast library of presets, obviously.

    Nifty recording to USB flash drive. As suggested by the rep, it's good for sound checks, archiving, yada yada.

    It's extraordinarily approachable. Unlike its bigger brothers the LS9 is not daunting and totally teachable as well as operatable by novices or students. Now, this does mean more button steps to options, but I'll take the trade off.

    It's very light and compact. It would definitely be a breeze to carry for a smaller touring group (probably not the right application, though). Gotta wait to find out how tough it is, but my impression given what I saw and what I know of Yamaha is that it can stand up to crap.

    The 16 channel has one MY slot and the 32 has two. This does mean expandability with ADAT.

    Definitely a heavy hitter for the range of console that it is. Blows the equivilant TT24 out of the water on features.

    Not the most riviting review, I know. I've had very little sleep. If you have any quesitons, let me know and I'd be happy to answer them or get them answered by a rep tomorrow. I know someone on the "AES" thread wanted to know about personal monitoring over the ethernet connection. There was no equipment of that sort being shown that I recall, but I can certainly ask about developement.
     
  17. SHARYNF

    SHARYNF Well-Known Member

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    My understanding is that the adat option is an either or, so if you want two adat 16 cards, you cannot have cobra net? It would have been nice, if I am correct is to be able to have the cobra net abilities for Live sound, but also have the adat capabilities for recording? Probably having 4 slots would have been great, and it is hard to see if it would have been all that more expensive.

    Sharyn,
     
  18. jbeutt

    jbeutt Active Member

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    Sharyn,
    Not entirely either or. The 16 channel version has one slot, which would technically allow for digital output of 16 channels, considering that's what you were using. I suppose in that scenario, you'd not be utilizing your digital ins, but that's one option. Same scenario on the 32 channel version which has two MY slots.
    However, you can have one ADAT card and one CobraNet card if you pleased. You are right, though, you woud not be able to send out all channels on ADAT were you to use both. Do you do a whole 24-track mix? In my world, I could go down to 16 channel recording on a 32-channel mix or even a 16 channel recording on a 48 channel mix (using adat and cobranet on a 32 ch. board). I can definitely see the downside. I suppose my answer, defending Yamaha and their decision, would be that someone needing even a 24-channel recording is probably out of the LS9 ballpark anyway.

    Is that clear or was there more you wanted?

    Also, to address personal monitoring. It doesn't seem that there is or will be the ability to output off the ethernet ports. I'm assuming these are just control ports. However, there are Aviom MY cards that each do 16 out.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2006
  19. SHARYNF

    SHARYNF Well-Known Member

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    Here is what we have found re live sound/recording

    If you have the option, the best approach is to simply have a input split snake, and send a feed to the recording truck or location etc, and have the person mixing the sound for recording to be isolated, and basically incontrol of their mix entirely. If you are say doing a tv broadcast you can use this mix also.

    If on the other hand you are trying to capture for later remix or really do not have the time/isolation to get the mix right at FOH, then the best approach is to take each of the inputs and record it independantly to seperate track.

    So we have a pretty elaborate setup, if we bring the truck, then we just split the inputs with the ISO snake and do it that way (typically if we are recording and feeding a live ty mix) ON the other hand for a lot of school type activities, it is really useful to simply record all the inputs to tracks on a Alesis HD24, we have two of them they are pretty inexpensive, and with the two we have 48 tracks available. That way the FOH person simply worries about live sound, and all the post recording mixing is left for later.

    So typically for the simple setup having a live console that has direct outs on all the inputs makes things really easy.

    Sharyn
     
  20. jbeutt

    jbeutt Active Member

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    o..k..
    That is how you would do it, thanks for the explanation. That's pretty much how every other recording scenario works.

    Forget the cobra net, you still aren't going to get 48 direct outs unless you use every single output, with ADAT cards. My queeestion was how many inputs do you normally run. Also, what kind of show are you running? On top of that, what board are you using now? If you were really tight, you could premix stereo mics, toms, backup vox, etc.
    Again, though, my impression is that someone doing a 48 channel split to a reording truck is probably going to be at a higher end model of mixer anyway, which I'm sure is what Yamaha figured.

    Why not just use your recording split to your HD24s?
     

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