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Yay, S4 PARS

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by Eboy87, Nov 14, 2005.

  1. Eboy87

    Eboy87 Well-Known Member

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    OK, so this past weekend we're working a miss america preliminary, and we keep having to replace the blue work wash, 12 6" fresnels with R80 gels, since they burn through them faster than our cyc lights would. Anyway, I point this out to our TD after the show, and he tells me we're ordering 12 Source Four PARS this week. That made my week. We havn't gotten new lights since the theater was built, and most of the fresnels still have asbestos chords on them.

    I just wanted to let my excitement out, though why I'm excited about PAR cans I can't tell.
     
  2. propmonkey

    propmonkey Well-Known Member

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    Theyre nice lights, we got 15 a month ago for our civic theatre....they seriously helped me so much.
     
  3. moojoe

    moojoe Active Member

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    they have asbestos tails and you guys are still using them? have you brought this up to the TD?
     
  4. Eboy87

    Eboy87 Well-Known Member

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    yes. I've been pushing for new fresnels or to have the whips replaced. Neither idea of mine semmed to go anywhere. And yes, I've read all the posts here about asbestos on fixtures.
     
  5. moojoe

    moojoe Active Member

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    if i were you then, i would threaten them. they could get in a lot of trouble for those tails, and are running high risks with those things.
     
  6. Mayhem

    Mayhem Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Or you could try putting together a proposal document that outlines the threat posed by the whips and the suggested means by which they should be removed.

    I think that you could easily put that together from previous posts on the topic - all it would require is a bit of formatting and some editing to make the structure flow.

    One copy for the TD and a copy for any other significant player in the running of your theatre. Is it a school/community/professional theatre?
     
  7. Eboy87

    Eboy87 Well-Known Member

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    School theater, and these pars really are gonna replace the asbestos fresnels.
     
  8. Mayhem

    Mayhem Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Why replace when it is simple and fairly inexpensive to have them compliment your Fresnels?

    At the end of the day we are talking about removing the whip and replacing it with a new one (under specific conditions of course).

    I would add in the cost of replacing the whip compared with replacing the Fresnel with a similar one, to illustrate the cost benefit ratio.

    I would include a copy to the principal, the school nurse (as it is a health threat) and perhaps one to the head of the parent/teachers association if your school has one.

    I just have a problem with people that throw out good equipment that can be easily brought up to spec and continue to be used. A lot of my current inventory consists of units that people have thrown in the bin because it was more convenient to buy a new one than to fix it.

    I know it isn’t your choice – but I would be arguing to replace the asbestos whips with new ones.

    If not - cut off the whips, bag 'em and box 'em and ship them to me!
     
  9. Eboy87

    Eboy87 Well-Known Member

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    I'll see what I can do about having the whips replaced. I'll admit, they do worry me a lot, and I refuse to work with the instruments that do have them.

    btw, is it bad if our school doesn't have a nurse?
     
  10. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    A PAR can is a bad replacement for a Fresnel. It's a good supplement but bad replacement.

    I disagree with any student replacing the whips. students should not be anywhere near the fixture while being re-wired.

    The fixtures should if possible be saved by way of sending it to a service company willing to do so if you can find one, or at very least the whip cut off and put into storage for a later day. In doing so, the plug on the fixture should not be attempt to be saved, one snip and all of it right into the trash bag.

    The interior wiring should be left in place without touching. At such a point it might get re-wired, a analysis of the condition of the lamp base will need to be done to see if such a lamp base is cost effective to attempt to save verses like with the plug easiest to just throw away once removed. They once the whip is cut off and fixture put into storage with perhaps even a caution sign on them, should not be touched further. Not worth the time nor money verses the health risk in saving the plug. Otherwise should your instructor wish to tackle the problem that is his or her business and simple enough once the fixture is cleaned from stray fibers inside te fixture.

    By far different liability and pre-exposure level to such insulation already in an adults life than that of a student. Given this is a 20 or 30 year old problem, there is no reason for students not even a twinkle in the eye to be exposed to it by way of servicing the equipment. Difference being that the instructors are adults and will be making their own choice and likely have been living with such problems a while now or making adult and legal choices on personal exposure. As a student - no matter college or high school, or even employee in being told to but not instructed how out of a direct safety program, you are other than correct in doing so.

    Were I an instructor I might given lots of study on the subject. In my past days I was even re-wiring bad asbestos with new asbestos heat wire - who will have thunk it? Now I do at times service equipment with asbestos. This after a lot of study into it and only by way of work asking me if I will before they accept any such job. You will not find many places that will re-wire gear with asbestos whips that also know what they are doing.

    Given this, perhaps an asbestos abatement company will be willing to remove the whips and clean the fixtures for you in providing you equipment that is ready to re-wire. This is probably the most reasonable and feasible cost effective choice. One might contact and inquire with such a company in getting a estimate. Should you need, contact me off line and I will furnish a list of steps they would need to do in giving you a bid. This method should you wish to save the fixtures I recommend.

    In past posts, it on a fresnel was possibly - no matter how antique the value more cost effective to dispose of the equipment and buy new. You can buy a used Fresnel for about the same if not less money as you can pay someone to remove it from the fixture.

    Finally, while in contact with the asbestos removal company, inquire in general their thoughts about cleaning the theater by way of rough estimate. Think about it. One is worried about breathing in the stuff you have in use. What about those particles that you don't breathe in? What happens to the asbestos dust that has piled up for the last what 30 or 40 years off even these whips?

    While not attempting to scare, in reality, the theater itself and especially it's catwalks might be just as dangerous if not more so as the fixtures by way of past fallen off now dust you stir up every time you move about.

    Have a nice day!.....

    This is a serious problem in theaters beyond just replacing the fixtures, and one that's doubtful how many places have considered solving.
     
  11. AVGuyAndy

    AVGuyAndy Active Member

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    Yes.
     
  12. Mayhem

    Mayhem Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    I concur with what ship has said and I just want to clarify that in no way did I mean that Eboy87 should remove the whips himself. I didn't state this specifically, as he had already indicated that he has read the previous posts on this topic, in which the safety aspects have been well documented. I think my previous posts would support my status on safety.

    My final comment about cutting the tails off and sending them to me was rather tongue in cheek and I hope it wasn’t taken seriously.

    Here it is illegal to dispose of asbestos without having it done by a professional. Therefore, for us to have the whips removed and the Fresnels then sit in a store room gathering dust would cost the same as having them cleaned up and ready to be rewired. Obviously we would have to foot the cost of the refit, but that is not going to be as much as buying a new fixture.

    I am pretty sure that we would also be obliged to replace the whips under OH&S legislation but I am not 100% sure on that. Fortunately, I have never seen asbestos insulated wiring before and not sure if we ever used it here.

    It would appear that this is not the case in the US.

    For the benefit of others – here are the links to some past discussions on asbestos:

    question about some old equipment
    Fixture ID
    Asbestos in Lighting
    I've never seen such an animal...
     
  13. Eboy87

    Eboy87 Well-Known Member

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    I wans't planning on doing it myself. I just merely wanted to bring the problem, and a few solutions to those in charge at my theater. Like I said earlier, I refuse to work anywhere near the fixtures.
     
  14. tenor_singer

    tenor_singer Active Member

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    You will find that with very few exceptions, the people in positions of authority to do anything about asbestos either (a) don't know anything about theater lighting and are therefore ignorant of the possibility that older fixtures have asbestos whips or (b) they do know things about theater lighting but haven't been appraised that the fixtures have unsafe whips.

    Either way you have to let your school's administration know. Usually superintendents and principals hear the word asbestos and they start reacting because of the safety issues involved and the large liability involved with being knowingly unsafe.

    I'm all about having a professional replace the whips. It is a cheap fix upon a fixture that has stage value beyond what the kit would cost.

    Either way, good luck with your new toys.
     

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