Alert on NEC section 406.15

[STEVETERRY]

Wow! the above is going to be very corporate and labor expensive as I read it given a L6-15 world I live in. Assuming grandfather clouse won't help in this monumental problem... any hints to a opening in the storm cloud I just sent to my bosses' the info on that is looming? Talking probably a lot of hundreds of thousands of dollars or more overall given http://www.nfpa.org/Assets/files/AboutTheCodes/70/TIA_70-14-5.pdf though a concept I saw years and years ago as per a problem coming.

These TIA's prevent exactly the sort of needless expenditure you mention. With the TIA's in place (and hopefully permanently in the Code for 2017) any impact on the entertainment industry should be minimized or eliminated.

ST

 

[JD]

The problems I see with many of these documents is they contain so many subroutines (code-writer speak) that they become convoluted to the point of misinterpretation. I am sure a software based book could be written that automatically calls up and shows the cross links, but in hard paper form the stage is set for many arguments. We see the line "Section 406.15 shall not apply" and know what it means because this has been the topic of this thread, but an hour before the show when you are trying to explain something to your local FM so that he doesn't shut the show down, these are the exact trip points that lead to lost tempers. There has been a (slight) move in the legal profession to go to "plain English", I hope one day we can move the NEC in that direction as well.

 

[MNicolai]

The problems I see with many of these documents is they contain so many subroutines (code-writer speak) that they become convoluted to the point of misinterpretation. I am sure a software based book could be written that automatically calls up and shows the cross links, but in hard paper form the stage is set for many arguments. We see the line "Section 406.15 shall not apply" and know what it means because this has been the topic of this thread, but an hour before the show when you are trying to explain something to your local FM so that he doesn't shut the show down, these are the exact trip points that lead to lost tempers. There has been a (slight) move in the legal profession to go to "plain English", I hope one day we can move the NEC in that direction as well.

This can be a more regrettable factor when you're talking about smaller/middle-sized areas where AHJ's primary job is fighting fires and they have no formal training in the particular codes that do or do not apply to theater environments. Further hampered by facility managers at the venues who lack an in-depth understanding of the codes they must abide by. Luckily, if someone has an AHJ that tells them to swap out all of their receptacles, a quick Google search will likely land them here. Alternatively, they can contact their local theatrical supply dealers who are more luckily to know what the story is here.

For that matter, it's not unlikely members of the fire service will end up here using this thread as a resource. You'd be surprised how many roads lead to ControlBooth. My cousin messaged me a couple days ago about a project of his. He was working on putting together a lift platform in his garage using some pulleys and wire rope so he could hoist his lawn mower up for storage. He was stumbling around on the internet looking for whether to use copper or aluminum swage fittings on the wire rope cable. His first hit was CB and he just about fell out of his chair when he scrolled part-way down and found a couple posts in that thread with my photo next to it. CB has a much wider influence than most of us realize and we're the first or second hit for all kinds of theater and non-theatre Google searches.

Took a public safety class in college that examined the complexity of the NEC/NFPA and compared the United States' fire death rates to those in some place I seem to recall was in Switzerland. Volume of fire protection regulations was proportional to fire death rates. In this place in Switzerland, a region with a low number of regulations had a breathtakingly insignificant fire death rate than the United States, which has a many times greater amount of fire protection regulations. This floated the quandary of "Would fewer people die in fires every year if we drastically simplified and reduced our fire protection regulations?" Statistical evidence appeared to indicate that it very well may.

 

[derekleffew]

Wow! the above is going to be very corporate and labor expensive as I read it given a L6-15 world I live in. Assuming grandfather clouse won't help in this monumental problem... any hints to a opening in the storm cloud I just sent to my bosses' the info on that is looming? Talking probably a lot of hundreds of thousands of dollars or more overall given http://www.nfpa.org/Assets/files/AboutTheCodes/70/TIA_70-14-5.pdf though a concept I saw years and years ago as per a problem coming.

So, a distribution scheme using L6-15 connectors is verboten even/if the wire is 12g and the OCPD is 20A?

Plug and receptacle ampere ratings for ac circuits shall not be less than the feeder or branch-circuit overcurrent device ampere rating. Table 210.21(B)(2) shall not apply.

(It's that table that permits multiple 5-15 outlets on a 20A circuit.)

 

[JD]

In this place in Switzerland, a region with a low number of regulations had a breathtakingly insignificant fire death rate than the United States, which has a many times greater amount of fire protection regulations. This floated the quandary of "Would fewer people die in fires every year if we drastically simplified and reduced our fire protection regulations?" Statistical evidence appeared to indicate that it very well may.

That is fascinating and has left me scratching my head! Were there any other conclusions as to why this may be? I have always felt regulations are critical. I could only speculate that maybe the culture over there is not to take shortcuts. Or, that a simpler code may encourage more to actually read and abide by it. Do you remember if the study was population balanced? After all, we have a lot more people over here

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

As far as effectiveness, research I've seen says deaths from structure fires is related more to socio economic factors than to any means and methods and materials. Perhaps those areas are indeed less compliant with regulations but the correlation seems very clear.

 

[ship]

I apologize for any confusion I have added to this topic. Didn't refresh myself into the relevant conversation and part of the code this was all about - including what I replied to earlier.

 

[STEVETERRY]

I apologize for any confusion I have added to this topic. Didn't refresh myself into the relevant conversation and part of the code this was all about - including what I replied to earlier.

No worries!

ST