Carbon Arc Followspots

[DaveySimps]

I have a local vendor who is nice guy and I've known for years. We get into repeated conversation about his carbon arc followspots, that he cannot get anyone to rent. Most of his equipment is old and out of date. Because of this his business has really taken a dive the last decade or so. He argues that most people would know how to run a carbon arc followspot (of which he has 6). I contend that it is becoming an antiquated skill nowadays, and most techs at road houses and amphitheaters do not (unless their venue owns them), and that is why he gets no rental of them. So, how many of you would be able to walk up to an old carbon-arc Super Trouper (or similar) and be efficient enough on it to be able to serve as a spot op for a performance at a road house?

~Dave

 

[techieman33]

Not I. I've run several different models of spotlight and wouldn't be worried about not being able to figure out how to run a different one as long as I had a couple of minutes to figure out that specific models features before the show started. I would want someone to give me a little training on a carbon arc though. We had one at my high school but it hadn't been used in several years so all I got to do was look at it, and heard little bits and pieces about running one 4th of 5th hand. I'm 27 and I doubt there are many people my age who have run one either.

 

[JLNorthGA]

I could do it after a few minutes to check it over again (it has been MANY years). But why? Carbon arc follow spots are cantankerous, hot, noisy and smelly. Ideally you have a vent above the follow spot position - and how many venues have that nowadays? Give me a Xenon or metal halide lamped follow spot any day. The Super Trooper was a great instrument for its time - but that time is not now.

 

[RonHebbard]

How many of you would be able to walk up to an old carbon-arc Super Trouper (or similar) and be efficient enough on it to be able to serve as a spot op for a performance at a road house?

~Dave

Hello Dave;

Let me boldly be the first to say I think I'd make the cut. For me it'd be a lot like riding a bike.

I won't disagree with the previous posters as far as carbon arcs being outdated technology.
I have far fewer hours on Troupers than Super Troupers but I'll concur with "cantankerous" and state they all had their own 'personalities'.
Back in the 60's we had a couple of the little A.C. carbon Troupers in town but when our largest roadhouse opened in '73 I met two brand new carbon Supers and never looked back.
A number of years later two 1600 watt xenon Supers were added to the spot booth.
The newbs, and touring lead spot ops, always grabbed the xenons. Nasty little person that I am, I always enjoyed blowing away the xenons with a clean and well tuned carbon. As I said, each carbon Super had its own personality, my favourite would reliably run an hour and twenty, 80 minutes, on a fresh trim but there'd be less than two minutes left to toss in the bucket.
All four spots were fitted with flexible vent tubes directly into an exhaust system tossing the foul air out a rooftop vent. Probably no longer permitted in today's green era.

I haven't been back to that booth in a while but I believe they retired the carbons and replaced them with a pair of, new at the time, 2K xenon Supers.

What do I miss in my rose colored memories?
- The round arcs were easier on my left wrist than the square cornered xenons
- The color changer was much closer to the pivot, easier to keep steady on fast color changes while still on stage
- The UV filter in its separate boomerang
- The optional lobsterscope

Thanks Dave for the trip down memory lane and I never even touched on carbon Gladiators!

Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[dramatech]

I have operated carbon Troupers, Supers and Gladiators, all at different times in my life. The last was a year ago on a supertrouper sitting along side a Xenon Super. I neither hated or loved them. They were just another spot experience. Changing the arcs on a long show was not the funnest thing in the world. I operated my first one in 1956. Oops just gave away my age.

 

[Scarrgo]

Sign me up, I miss running Carbon Arcs, like running a living breathing machine...never a dull moment

When I started running arcs, I had to stand on an apple crate, and who needed an exhaust tubes, when you could taste the metal from the carbons you know the show is almost over. I also remember changing carbons with a dry wash cloth, it was a bad game to see who could get burned last(the joys of being young and indestructible).

I agree that not to many people know how to run one anymore...

Sean...

 

[DaveySimps]

You have an unfair advantage Sean. You likely know who it is I speak of. In fact, you were probably his last spot rental.

~Dave

 

[DaveySimps]

Any one in the 35 and under age bracket know how to run one?

~Dave

 

[len]

There were 2 in my high school when I was there. I might be able to figure it out, but how many rods would I go through beforehand?

Are the rods still available?

 

[derekleffew]

Any one in the 35 and under age bracket know how to run one?

I would guess 0.01% of those in that category have run a carbon-arc. The last time I ran one (1993) I would have fit the criteria. I don't believe there are any still in use in Las Vegas.
See also the threads:
Strong Trouper Followspot
Carbon Arc Troupers
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/19638-1948-spotlight-deathtrap.html

... Are the rods still available?

As of 04/30/13, yes: http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/32084-carbon-arc-carbons.html .

... We get into repeated conversation about his carbon arc followspots, that he cannot get anyone to rent. Most of his equipment is old and out of date. Because of this his business has really taken a dive the last decade or so. ...

I would not want to be the one to have to justify the use of these beasts to an AHJ in indoor venues. Consider them museum artifacts.

Yeah... I might be seeing if they have a surplus website or any auctions I can go to

Here's a quick picture I took of them. Didn't mean for it to be such a closeup. They're huge!


...

1976 article about Strong Electric in the Toledo Blade: http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...RBPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=agIEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6713,1419670 .

Mr. [Nelson] Alexander said there are more spotlights for each square mile in Las Vegas than perhaps anywhere else in the world, and most of them are Super Troupers. The new MGM Grand Hotel [today Bally's], for example, utilizes 14 of them, he said.

.

 

[DaveySimps]

I would not want to be the one to have to justify the use of these beasts to an AHJ in indoor venues. Consider them museum artifacts.

.

This is what I have been trying to convince him of for years.

~Dave

 

[RonHebbard]

Sign me up, I miss running Carbon Arcs, like running a living breathing machine...never a dull moment

When I started running arcs, I had to stand on an apple crate, and who needed an exhaust tubes, when you could taste the metal from the carbons you know the show is almost over. I also remember changing carbons with a dry wash cloth, it was a bad game to see who could get burned last(the joys of being young and indestructible).

I agree that not to many people know how to run one anymore...

Sean...

Hello Sean!

You're bringing back the memories, mostly warm 'n fuzzy.

"running Carbon Arcs, like running a living breathing machine...never a dull moment"
Exactly!! A 'lost arc' as it were.

"When I started running arcs, I had to stand on an apple crate,"
Understood, I've been short all my life too. ;^)

"changing carbons with a dry wash cloth, it was a bad game to see who could get burned last (the joys of being young and indestructible)."

Dry cloth? Wimp!! Bare hands Sean, bare hands!
Pliers to pull 'em and toss in the bucket, bare hands to put 'em in.

Changing sticks on the fly was where 'real men' proved their muster!!
Faster! Faster!! Always striving to be the fastest in your local!!!
Oh the memories! Oh the bragging rights!!
To be fast and blemish free, no scars, no burns, oh yeah!

Seriously;
Keeping your next pair inside with one pointed each direction, right where you need 'em, dry and moisture free.
Your next next pair were on top against the hinge being warmed and dried.

When you noticed a slight vertical rod misalignment, or reflector alignment issue, you didn't wait 'til you were down or try to correct on a booth wall between cues, no, this needs to be done when everything's up to temperature and somewhere near your normal throw distance.
You couldn't take a coin to the rear of the lamphouse while still following people but you could learn to reach back, open the door just enough to slide your left hand in and turn the correct adjustment from behind the reflector where things weren’t near as hot as in front.
Not for the faint of heart, definitely not to be executed while wearing a metal watchband on your left wrist. Executed, Freudian choice of word.

For no explicable reason, I've survived "the joys of being young and indestructible" and matured to old and silly; silly, no not senile!

Thanks Sean for the memories.

Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[jstandfast]

It's useful, I think, to bear in mind that now days in many jurisdictions if you wanted to run a carbon arc the AHJ would make you install a dedicated(and very expensive) exhaust system so the operators of today wouldn't be sucking that foul stuff that we did........

 

[JLNorthGA]

What I remember the most - having to change the rods in the middle of Ian Anderson singing "Thick as a Brick" - that song went on forever....

The most rods I ever went through in a single event - the concert started with a preshow at 7:00 pm and wasn't over until 1:30 am the following morning. The promoter was frugal and only wanted two spot operators. Changing fast and on the fly.

 

[Scarrgo]

You have an unfair advantage Sean. You likely know who it is I speak of. In fact, you were probably his last spot rental.

~Dave

Yes I do know who you are speaking about, and I agree, but to replace would cost him so much, with so little return...

 

[DaveySimps]

and I agree, but to replace would cost him so much, with so little return...

I agree. I never suggested replacing, rather him considering scrapping / parting them out. He would reduce his overhead by having one less storage bay to pay for. As of now, they are costing him money, and have been for years.

~Dave

 

[MPowers]

Run an Arc Light? Piece-O'-Cake! My first time was back in '63 and later while working for Disney, I became a certified Strong repair tech for the whole line. I also became skilled at running the big old Genarco units made by Metropolitan. They were already very old when I ran them. Huge units you sat under the front end with the snout over your shoulder. Throws were usually 300' to 400' so 3-4 inches swing of the snout was a 25' sweep on stage. The Genarco was a DC unit and the positive carbon was about 3/4" diameter and roughly 14" long, IIRC, and the back end was exposed and stuck out the rear of the lamp housing about 6" at the start.

On a side note, though the technology is now old hat, it had some neat off shoots. For example, years before high intensity programmable strobes were invented, it was easy to create a shop built Lightning machine to vividly simulate lightning bolts, using a pair of carbons, small portable welder and some ingenuity. I intentionally won't give the details here but it involved two or three shop made glass slide/gobos, spare reflector from a trouper, a strong spring and a sheet metal housing. The glass slides, about 4"x4", were painted with bar-B-Q black paint and then an exacto knife scratched out a lightning bolt. The slides were mounded on a sliding frame so you could shift between them in between lightning flashes. The housing had the reflector on one side and the opening for the slides on the back. That let you "project" the lightning on the cyc and if desired, open the side opposite the reflector and the light flashed across the stage in perfect sync with the visible bolt. The action was so fast, the dichotomy of the direction of the visible bolt and shadows cast by the flash being at 90 degrees to each other was never noticed by the audience, even other designers or technicians.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

Never had the experience. Almost got trained on them a couple times at a few different places, but time never allowed for it.

 

[WooferHound]

We had 12 of them in our theater/arena. They have all been replaced with xenon Lycians now. I think they are illegal here in Alabama because they cause Black Lung disease.

 

[BillESC]

I'm sure I have a couple thousand hours on Troupers, Super Troupers and Genarco's. Like riding a bike to me.