Codes dealing with hanging from sprinkler pipes?

[Sayen]

I'm in a dispute with a local theater, who wants to hang lights on their sprinkler pipes. I've always believed this was against (NFPA?) code, and common sense, but now I'm being called out on it and need to prove that it's a Bad Idea.

Do you have to purchase the NFPA to read it? I couldn't find actual codes.

I found a reference to NFPA 70 online, but no actual text, and was told this dealt specifically with lighting?

Another forum suggested OSHA might have something to say about non-standard/non-structural pipes being used to support lighting.

Any help? What's the worst that would happen if they were inspected/cited?

 

[Dover]

NFPA 70 is the electrical code, I think you need to look in the fire code. But the simplest answer is to call the local fire marshal and just ask. I think I know what they will say.

 

[Chris15]

If nothing else, ask for the load rating of the sprinkler pipes, I'll bet there is not a manufacturer or installer out there willing to give you a load capacity...

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Ditto Dover on call to local authorities. NFPA 13 is the sprinkler standard and if you drill through the web site there is a free viewer edition, albeit free. I don't know if their web based help is limited to members only but that is an option. If stuck, contact me off line and I'll find the reference - but too busy till next week.

 

[museav]

I don't believe you'd be allowed to support any related cable from the sprinkler pipe per NFPA 70/NEC.

 

[StradivariusBone]

I don't believe you'd be allowed to support any related cable from the sprinkler pipe per NFPA 70/NEC.

I think you're right. From my days as a cable monkey I recall getting chewed out by the AHJ doing a walkthrough when we had ziptied Cat5e to the threaded rod holding the pipe. I can't quote code, but his take was that low voltage had to be suspended from the ceiling grid by it's own method. Tying on to sprinkler and/or ceiling grid wires was apparently out of line, which made it interesting when there weren't raceways or conduit installed.

I can't imagine hanging a light from it.

 

[Jay Ashworth]

I can't cite it, but I absolutely guarantee you that you cannot hang anything -- much less anything *energized* -- from the sprinkler piping. Not even on the AHJ's birthday.

Or, um, today. ;-)

 

[JChenault]

I can't cite it, but I absolutely guarantee you that you cannot hang anything -- much less anything *energized* -- from the sprinkler piping. Not even on the AHJ's birthday.

Or, um, today. ;-)

Well I have hung the cages to protect the sprinkler head. But that's about it

 

[techieman33]

I can't cite it, but I absolutely guarantee you that you cannot hang anything -- much less anything *energized* -- from the sprinkler piping. Not even on the AHJ's birthday.

Or, um, today. ;-)

We all know it's a big no no, some people won't listen to common sense though and need to have the actual codes shown to them.

 

[Jay Ashworth]

Apologies to John; I assumed "that isn't directly related to the sprinkling mission" was obvious.

NFPA 13-2002 9.1.1.7:

"Support of Non-System Components. Sprinkler piping or hangers shall not be used to support non-system components."

That seems definitive to me; I don't know if the section has changed in the latest revision, but I'm sure it's still in there.

 

[Robert]

My AHJ gave me the basic version of above and it went further in that," No trade (installer) may hang components off of another trade's."

 

[Jay Ashworth]

A good rule to follow, and it may be the distillation of each trade's codes, but I don't think it's a general law.

Note that 9.1.1.7 even prohibits *using the same hangers for other plumbing*, not just for electricity.

 

[theatricalmatt]

Since the OP asks, "What's the worse that could happen?" -- just imagine if the sprinkler system were to activate. It doesn't matter whether it's caused by hanging a light off of the sprinkler pipe, a stage technician bumping and triggering a sprinkler head, an actual emergency, or something entirely unrelated. The fire department *will* be called in, and anything suspicious (like a light hanging off of the sprinkler pipe) is going to be questioned. If the fire department sees it, if the sprinkler system has activated, they're going to report it to the insurance company. Neither one is going to view hanging off a sprinkler pipe, as opposed to another structure, in a positive fashion.

The only argument in its favor is one of convenience -- which is really just laziness. The potential drawbacks far exceed the work of having to take the lights down and hanging them someplace else, but may affect the cost of insurance coverage, or even permitting allowing performances to be given in the space.

 

[museav]

Since the OP asks, "What's the worse that could happen?" -- just imagine if the sprinkler system were to activate. It doesn't matter whether it's caused by hanging a light off of the sprinkler pipe, a stage technician bumping and triggering a sprinkler head, an actual emergency, or something entirely unrelated. The fire department *will* be called in, and anything suspicious (like a light hanging off of the sprinkler pipe) is going to be questioned. If the fire department sees it, if the sprinkler system has activated, they're going to report it to the insurance company. Neither one is going to view hanging off a sprinkler pipe, as opposed to another structure, in a positive fashion.

I would argue that the worst that could happen would be for it to interfere with the proper operation of the sprinkler system. I'd much rather deal with the AHJ and insurers addressing resulting water damage than with their addressing associated injuries or deaths.

It should be noted that your scenario is not just conjecture, I was involved in a project where a week or so before opening a painter doing some last minute work set off the sprinkler head right over the audio racks that contained all the patching and electronics for their PM5D mixer and system DSP. Luckily they got everything dried out and working for the opening as with all the different parties involved it took a while to get the insurance settled so they could get replacements.

 

[Jay Ashworth]

They were /stunningly/ lucky; I am told that what stands in sprinkler pipes is the exact opposite of distilled water.

Sent from my SPH-L720

 

[StradivariusBone]

They could always switch to Halon. Gaseous fire suppression - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I worked in a few places that used that for their server rooms. Very effective, but pretty terrifying. You can still run/walk/crawl out while the sprinklers are going, inert gas not so much.

 

[Jay Ashworth]

Not anymore. Halon's jo longer legal for new installs, I don't think.

I liked Ansul Inergen, myself. But that may not be available anymore either.

Sent from my SPH-L720

 

[Dionysus]

Not anymore. Halon's jo longer legal for new installs, I don't think.

I liked Ansul Inergen, myself. But that may not be available anymore either.

Sent from my SPH-L720

Not sure about in your area, but when I had my Fire Alarm etc training (yeah I install them, not the sprinklers) Halon was for extreme situations only. And rightly so, anyone who is trapped inside who can't get to an oxygen mask is a little screwed. So fewer uses in commercial buildings. Deluge system are FAR more common (not that you want one of those in a sever room :O)

As for hanging from sprinkler pipes, NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER hang ANYTHING from sprinkler pipes, you can't hang ANYTHING off of them. Same goes with Natural Gas lines for that matter.

 

[Jay Ashworth]

Sure; mainly datacenters. Why Inergen was a good idea; breathable but wont support combustion.

Sent from my SPH-L720

 

[StradivariusBone]

Certain breeds of Halon were "breathable" (at least more so than CO2) too if I recall, just the issues with the ozone layer driving the bus to change course.