Need info on Tech/design certification for 2 year college

[Chroma]

I work in a community college in Florida, and our Fine Arts program is growing fast. we've just finished construction on a 600 seat pac, with dance studio.

we are exploring a 2 year degree in tech and design, but are also looking at some sort of certificate program. We are targeting tech and design students out of highschool who are headed either into the field, or four year programs. Does anyone have experiance with such a thing? I would love to hear from you.

 

[FACTplayers]

I do not have experience in this matter, but I know you do need to promote what jobs are available post graduation. I know there are many more jobs out there than working with a Broadway show, but most high school students do not know what this type of degree can lead to.

 

[jglodeklights]

My papers (my transcripts and degree) don't mean anything, at least until I apply to an MFA program. What has meaning for the people I work with is the past work I've done and how much they enjoy working with me and the work I do now. Each theater I work with, though, has different ways of doing things because each building, company and the work they do is so different. What has been most important for me are the strong basic skills that I learned. I am able to adapt to each theater I work with and their way of doing things.

You would likely also need to target your program to conform with the standards of local colleges and universities that many students will move on to after their time with you. One sure way to kill a community college program is for in 2 years the first round of students talking to their friends looking at the program and saying, "Hey, don't go their, your credits won't transfer ANYWHERE!"

 

[museav]

we are exploring a 2 year degree in tech and design, but are also looking at some sort of certificate program. We are targeting tech and design students out of highschool who are headed either into the field, or four year programs. Does anyone have experiance with such a thing? I would love to hear from you.

What do you mean by "some sort of certificate program"? Would this be part of or ties into a larger, well recognized certification program? Or could it be something that has limited meaning? There is quite a range in what a certificate represents and thus its potential value to employers and other schools.

 

[gafftaper]

We explored this idea about 3 years ago at the college I work at. In the end I had to tell my department head and dean: As much as I would love to develop the job (and run the program), I can't in good conscious say that I would advise my students to take the program because unlike other fields, I can not guarantee the results.

Here are a few quick thoughts:

-About the only "certification" you can do that means anything would be to work with your local IATSE union and develop a program that prepares people to take their union test. This is worthwhile and actually done at some schools around the country.

-In a two year program you can learn enough to be a good stage hand or board operator. You can get the basics of a lot of topics but you can't possibly master something like lighting design or scenic design in that short of time when combined with all the general classwork you also have to take in a C.C. So what is your goal?

-Anyone with good training in high school or say volunteering at a good community theater, can walk down and take that union test on their own. So what good is your program to them?

-What can your certificate possibly mean in the industry, other than a student is prepared to take the union test? A Community College certificate is not going to guarantee anything in New York, Vegas, or LA. Maybe it'll be good 10 years down the road when people from your program show a proven track record, but you can't guarantee anything to your students. Most people in the industry believe the best educational approach is a lengthy broad education in theater including at least 4 years of hands on work.

In the end we come back to the simple problem that you don't need anything to get a job in this industry. You don't need an MFA, You Don't need a BA. It's possible to graduate from High School and never step a day in a classroom and be successful in this industry. Kids, don't misunderstand me, I'm not advising you to skip college, it is much more difficult to be successful in this industry with less education. However an MFA from Yale is no guarantee that you will ever get off the C list in your local union or get a job as a designer. Who you have worked with and who you impressed with your skill is far more powerful than any piece of paper in this industry. So what do you really have to sell with a 2 year C.C. certification program? What can you promise your graduates? Will your certificate carry any weight in the industry to help graduates get work?

We decided not to do it. I offered good basic intro to tech classes and did my best to build bridges to local university programs so that I was feeding them good students and they knew what they were getting from me.

 

[museav]

In the end we come back to the simple problem that you don't need anything to get a job in this industry. You don't need an MFA, You Don't need a BA. It's possible to graduate from High School and never step a day in a classroom and be successful in this industry.

Just wanted to add that getting a job in the industry and getting any job in the industry are not the same thing as positions "in the industry" can range so widely. There are certainly some jobs in the industry where having an industry or union certification may mean much more than a college degree, but there are also positions in the industry where the opposite is true and you'd be very challenged to get them without a college degree.

While there are many very beneficial certification programs, be wary of certification courses that present personal opinion, one of several accepted approaches or even erroneous information as the accepted practices. I had a case where a tech had recently obtained an industry certification and the first project after they received the certification they spent most of their time criticizing everyone else rather than actually doing anything to benefit the work. That would not even have been as bad if much of what the had apparently gained from the certification course did not appear to be primarily the personal opinions and preferences of those involved in the certification if not outright wrong (they argued that cabling they pulled that was ripped through the jacket and insulation such that the conductors were visible was acceptable and did not need to be repulled and they should know since they were a certified installer and I was not). It took less than a day on that project before they were asked to not return the following day. This kind of experience is why I noted that many employers might be dubious of anything other than a well recognized certification.

 

[jglodeklights]

I like where both Gaff and Brad are taking this. Both bring up points relevant to this specific topic, and to our industry as a whole. I believe both arrive at a similar conclusion. The basic skills and mindsets that a degree program, certificate program, or working experience provide a student, along with the experience or program's name, is of utmost relevance and importance. My undergraduate program taught me the basic design and electrician skills required for me to advance while teaching me to, pardon my french (sort of), shut the F*** up, listen and learn from those with more experience than myself. At the same time, safety skills and practices were POUNDED into my head. People I work with appreciate the flexibility I have to adapt to them while sticking to my guns on keeping them and the crew safe (and sane). I'm not at all perfect (just ask me how much I manage to screw up my LightWright files sometimes), but I know when I'm screwing up and when I'm pissing off those around me.

 

[gafftaper]

By the way I totally agree with Brad and Joe. The problem is you really can't learn much in a two year program at a C.C. where you also have to take all your other general education credits to get your A.A. Yeah if it was a two year intensive all tech program you could learn a lot, but that requires a Full Sail sort of budget and staffing. It's not the kind of thing that a C.C. can just add to the program and put one person in charge of. On the other side, there are designer jobs where getting an MFA is a huge benefit. But a C.C. certificate is going to mean nothing when trying to get a job as a designer. Finally there is the point that Joe touched on and Footer has also talked about in the past. Getting your B.A. is an opportunity to spend four years making mistakes, being yelled at by your T.D., and getting things right. You need time to get rid of bad habits and learn good ones. Again you just can't do that in a 2 year program.