Sound f/x Onstage Foley Station?

[producer]

I'm not working on a show atm, but that doesn't stop my brain from thinking. Has anyone ever heard of or tried using a foley station back stage instead of using canned fx? For example, a car door closing "outside" or a car horn honking and acutally using a real car horn or foley version of a car door?

Does this even make sense? Good idea?

 

[Stookeybrd]

A Prairie Home Companion uses an onstage Foley artist for every performance to this day. He uses both objects and his voice to create FX. A touring show I just shared a hotel with has a military jeep as a prop on stage, and put 5 mics inside the jeep to make it a center piece of scenes(seat belt clicks, door slams, squeaky seats, etc.).

Unless it is part of the show, like APHC, then I do not think it is a good idea. IMHO, cues need to be hit exactly on time(gun shot) and sound the same every time. To use your example, say you park a car by the loading dock, position your mics inside and outside of the car, have video and comm for your foley artist: but it is thunder storming that night. Or, the foley artist is going through a rough divorce and slams the door too hard for the casual taxi scene on stage. These things that you cannot account for make me nervous.

I am all for recording your own FX and making what you want rather than taking it off a database. But if I cannot control it, or my operator cannot control it consistently night to night? No thank you.

 

[kiwitechgirl]

Gunshot effects are quite often done live with the "stand on the end of a board, pull the free end up and then release it on cue" trick - it works quite well. I worked on a production of King Lear where the set was mic'ed up and some heavy processing applied so that to create rain, the cast members tapped on the set (in specific places) and that created the effect, and one of the doors was mic'ed up so that when you slammed it you got a thunder effect - it was a stunning effect because you could see the cast actually creating the storm. I've done occasional shows where we've had a piano mic'ed up out the back and a cast member has played it instead of having recorded music. Other than that, I'd be very wary of it as it does lead to things being not necessarily in the control of the operator or stage manager, as Stookeybrd said.

 

[museav]

I've done this as part of a live recreation of a 1940's radio show. I did as many of the effects live as possible including walking on wood floors (or a dock for one scene), walking on gravel, doors opening and closing, bodies falling, gunshots, thunder, fights, a door being kicked in, etc. My wife was my 'assistant', which let us do mutliple things at once as well as provide background 'crowd' noises for some scenes. We were an active part of the performance, in period costume and located stage right with the announcer stage left and the voice talent and singers center stage. It was actually a lot of fun and we got quite a workout during one of the scenes.

When I was in college we were encouraged, and even required, to create many of our own sound effects. You would record them (reel-to-reel or cart in those days) so that they could be more consistent and better controlled, but I still remember two of us spending hours in the studio trying to create the sound of a bird taking off and flying away.

 

[GreyWyvern]

I have done a show a couple times that took place largely in a NYC radio station studio back in the '40s. Back then, that is how radio shows were done, with live SFX. So we built a 3' high door, and attached other things to it and had even more things on a table next to it. It was actually fun to do. As already mentioned, Prairie Home Companion still does it this way.

You have to be creative to come up with ways to make certain sounds. Some are easier than others. Here's a few examples:
Door - 3' high working door in a short door frame.
Light switch - A wooden clothespin mounted on top of the door frame, let it snap closed.
Footsteps - A pair of shoes that had rods fastened to stick straight up out of shoe, sound made by "walking" shoes on a board with the back end raised a couple inches (so the sound carried from underneath it).
Tea kettle whistle - Took whistle off of old tea kettle and blew through it.
We also had a pipe collar mounted on the door frame and a small piece of pipe to make the sound of a pipe squeaking as it was turned. Several wrenches for the sound of tools being pulled from a tool box. I don't remember all of it.

One of the times it was done, we needed sound reinforcement, which meant some very creative and careful micing. We used some older Crown PZM-6R mics and removed the element from the plate and carefully taped the mic in place. We put one right on top of the door frame and one on the table top underneath the shoe board. It worked well and gave a very natural sound, better than with the element on the metal plate.

If it fits into the show, it can work really well. It is fun to do, but can be very nerve wracking at the same time.

 

[producer]

I sort of lied when i first posted. More so by omission. This idea did come into my head from my last show, where we did use some real effects instead of canned stuff. We had several scenes where the characters would announce their arrival prior to actually entering the set by honking a car horn. So I went out and got a couple different horns, threw them back stage and wired them into a 12v power supply, with momentary buttons in an enclosure. Totally understand what you guys are talking about control. Since I didnt have enough cabling to run the control lines to the booth, so I had the actors who's "car" it was, "toot their own horn". In theory, it was a good idea, and in reality it worked. Except one actor kept missing his cue for the horn untill the last show when I had someone stand by him before he went on and make sure he honked the horn. Alot of fun and sounded so real, everyone thought it was sound effect. (almost pointless if you look at it mathematically).

It's always my goal to record my own sound effects for the shows, because the director usually gives me really bad quality stuff or effects that dont really fit the production.

How have you recreated other sound effects? What weird items have you used for foley?

 

[GreyWyvern]

...so I had the actors who's "car" it was, "toot their own horn". ...

Most actors seem to be all too good at that!

 

[renegadeblack]

Or, the foley artist is going through a rough divorce and slams the door too hard for the casual taxi scene on stage. These things that you cannot account for make me nervous

So then should we also not hire actors in case they're going through a difficult time and flub lines or have a tiff with a fellow actor and refuse to be on stage with them? Let's be fair now.

 

[producer]

Aren't actors ALWAYS going through a difficult time, flubbing lines, or having issues with other cast? I think it's more of a case of when, not if.

 

[Stookeybrd]

So then should we also not hire actors in case they're going through a difficult time and flub lines or have a tiff with a fellow actor and refuse to be on stage with them? Let's be fair now.

We should be fair, but I personally believe the crew shouldn't be inconsistent night to night. The costumes should always be clean, the lights should always be focused, and the sound always engaging. As you mentioned, there are enough inconsistent production members night to night. Most shows I'm involved with, flubbing lines and having tiffs with fellow actors are grounds for firing. It is unfortunate, but true.


When I can replace actors with Qlab 3, better believe I'll be first in line